I Am No Longer an Atheist

by OnTheWayOut 171 Replies latest members adult

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  yadda yadda 2

  The fact that many people are just naturally atheist because of God's 'hiddenness' without necessarily opposing theism is itself a strong argument for atheism. Philosopher John Schellenberg developed this argument and wrote a book about it, and you can read an article by him on infidels.org.

  What Divine Hiddenness Reveals, or How Weak Theistic Evidence is Strong Atheistic Proof (2008)

  http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/john_schellenberg/hidden.html

  Likewise, the philosopher Theodore Drange has developed a similar argument, called the Argument from Nonbelief (ANB), also on Infidels.org at the link below:

  The Arguments From Evil and Nonbelief

  Theodore Drange

  http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/theodore_drange/aeanb.html
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  adamah

  Mr Fool said- it´s like 50-50 for me, I have no idea because I have nothing to back it up with.

  So Mr Fool, if you acknowledge that no actual evidence for God exists, then how do you go about assigning a numerical value to the odds of his existence?

  You must have gone thru SOME thought process in order to come up with that probability figure: care to share what it's based on?

  BTW, do you feel the God (the one you're not even sure exists) is omniscient?
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  cofty

  50:50 is hardly a numerical value is it? It's more like a metaphor for something like, "I really don't know, there seem to be compelling arguments on both sides".
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  Mr Fool

  I don´t pretend that nobody can ever be certain. I´m open for that possibility. If that means through meditation or studying, reading, logic thinking, I have no idea. Maybe others have a good understanding about the truth, but I don´t. That´s a weakness I have.
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  Mr Fool

  About 50:50 Cofty explained it already. Christmas Day next year in London; will it fall snow that day? I don´t know, maybe, maybe not. How shall I possibly know?

  Adamah - If the possible existing God is omniscient? Hmm, how shall I know that? Sorry, I have no idea.
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  cofty

  Christmas Day next year in London; will it fall snow that day? I don´t know, maybe, maybe not. How shall I possibly know?

  There is no comparison.

  Examine the evidence that is proposed by believers. Ask thoughtful questions and marvel at the failure of the answers.

  Study the holy books and see their obvious lack of supernatural influence, their contradictions and absurdities.

  Consider the scientific evidence that makes a creator redundant.

  Wrestle with the problem of evil and listen to the best efforts of aplogists to sell their contradictory theodicies. Then when you have done that find the courage to gaze at the human face of suffering and see if the ivory tower apologists still sound so clever.

  Think about the perfection of god's hiddenness.

  You are simply trying to make a virtue out of intellectual laziness.
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  Mr Fool

  About evidences - atheists find evidences against existence of God everywhere, religious people find evidences for the existences of God everywhere. When I was young I hadn´t any biased idea about who the Creator of the universe is. After I didn´t believed in God because of a conviction built on "evidences". After a started to believe in God because of a conviction built on "evidences". My own very limited experience is that a conviction is a bad thing, created in mind and have left nothing good, at least FOR ME. Maybe it works fine for others, I don´t know.
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  cofty

  religious people find evidences for the existences of God everywhere

  No they don't, they have something they call faith, which is believing things despite the evidence.

  a started to believe in God because of a conviction built on "evidences"

  Such as?
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  Laika

  Christmas Day next year in London; will it fall snow that day?

  I hope so.
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  Mr Fool

  Cofty - Reading, studying, debating is food for the intellect. But if the Truth is beyond our intellect and beyond everything we are aware of?! You wrote nothing about meditation (and I guess atheists never do), only about intellectual thinking. Are you not open for (about 50:50) the possibility that meditation MAY be a key for understanding the reality of "Truth"? Or are you convinced that intellectual thinking is the way to go?