Fallacies about Faith (page 9)

myelaine

dear Adamah...

you said: "So then, since you threw the example of pedophilia out there, what exactlydoes 'God's law' have to say on the subject of pedophilia? Can you cite a scripture where God-given morality explains God's views?"...

There isn't one scripture about pedophilia. from the beginning of the bible God speaks to mankind using a marriage motif. He makes it clear that marriage isbetween a man and a woman and its greatest aim is the production of children. because the bible doesn't say how young a maiden fit for marriage is we can based on the objective (children) conclude that she would have started menstruation. Today girls usually start menstruation at around 10-12 years old but environmental factors play into the onset of menarche and so menstruation might have been delayed dependant on nutrition and possibly stress. The incedence of pedophillia is determinate on the attraction of an adult to a prepubescent child...in a culture such as the jews where there is stress put on marriage for procreation I would conclude that the need for a written rule drawing attention to it's illegality wouldn't exist.

We can actually see that the same thing can't be said for modern society since the two pronged development of loss of belief in a final judgement from God and a decline of the notion of sex inside marriage for procreation. Modernity has brought with it the sexual revolution and all that "values and morality" stuff left town running And societal laws have changed with the times. (That's what I was referring to in a previous post when I said that we as a society haven't maintained the laws we had and now it is a going to be hard for law-makers to resist the notion that pedophilia is just another sexual orientation no better or worse than any other)

You said: "See, that's the same problem with Jesus' law of love ("love your neighbor as thyself"): it sounds great in theory, but it offers NOTHING on specifics, so everyone is forced to exercise their own moral sense of what it means"...

i refute Tammy's interpretaion of Jesus' "law of love". Jesus taught and lived love the heavenly Father above and before anything else...His will be done. That is the beginning of the naohide laws and the ten commandments. The idea exponded in the NT is that loving the heavenly Father first one would be drawn to the Son for forgiveness because you couldn't keep all the other written laws of moses(communal) in spirt an in truth...and with assurance of forgiveness you are also given the presence of the Holy Spirit in your very person to help you to overcome (these natural tendancies of a fallen nature) which leads to being able to worship in spirit and truth.

That is the new nature that you and the Holy Spirit cultivate...the bible doesn't say much positive about "excercising their own moral sense" that I can recall.

love michelle

tec

And I meant their hearts were too hard for the law to be written upon them. Michelle and I were talking about the law of love, and I wrote that. Though all laws DO stem from the first two - love of God and love neighbor as oneself. If one has such love upon their hearts, then the rest will come.

If this were not the case, that the hearts of Israel were not hard (and there are many hearts that are hard, other than just Israel... ) then God would not have said that 'at that time' (referring to a future time) I will write my laws on your hearts.

Peace,

tammy

Band on the Run

Very bad antisemitism. It flourishes among certain Christians on this forum. Portions of the New Testament are antisemitic. There is no objective findng that Jews are hard hearted. It was the opinion of individual Christian authors. The New Testament also includes writings of Jewish Christians. Revelation is one such book. Christianity started as a Jewish sect. Jesus was a Jews. He never declared He was not Jewish. Was Jesus hard hearted? Is there a hard hearted gene? I know Jews in real life. They are not hard hearted. This is the tragic nature of not understanding the world view of the writer. It is also why fundamenalism is so dangerous.

I recently rode in a NYC taxi with a Moslem driver. When I mentioned I had to do something law related, he thought I was a lawyer. Lawyer meant Jew to him.I don't know but I believe more lawyers in NYC are Christians than Jews. The weather was dreadful. I was fortunate to be in the taxi during rush hour. His reaction was explosive and bordered on violent. I was going to be thrown out of the taxi. Me. The police were not going to come rescue me. He assured me that Christians believe in Allah. I no longer know if we do. It seems to me that Paul talked a lot about Judaism. Mindlessly repeating these religous myths leads us to war and other dreadful things.

If you don't understand the culture and historical circumsances of the Bible books, I submit it is impossible to understand a single scripture. Humans wrote these books, often to press a specific agenda. This is why the four gospels often contradict each other. The writers were not writing for everyoen but a specific audience. If we just pull a Bible off the shelf and open it to read it, we are soothsaying. Context matters. It is sad b/c so much is known about the first century today.

Ignorance wins yet again. Christianity's record of torturing, exiling, and murdering Jews takes away from all the nice Jesus sayings. It is sad to come here and see it happen so frequently. There is no objective proof that the New Testament fulfilled any Old Testament prophecy. The NT is propoaganda as much as scripture. We don't have to adopt the biases of the original authors. Take it wth a grain of salt.

tec

You know, by your guys' reasoning, the Torah is an anti-semitic holy book.

How many comments on this forum speak about genocide from the Israelites, and other such things... by the very person now claiming someone who said the israelites were hard-hearted... is an anti-semetic racist?

Of course Jaheshua was born as a Jew; his apostles were ALL Jewish; his first followers to receive holy spirit were all Israel; the gentiles came in later; so the first to hear and to accept Christ were of Israel. Though some gentiles did also... but Christ was sented FIRST to Israel. When rejected by most, his call and message opened to everyone else as well.

ANY and ALL persecution, hatred, racism, actual anti-semitism, etc... against the Jews... or anyone, including Muslims (and how many comments here are against Islam and ALL Muslims... Cofty...?) is wrong.

It is not different with Christianity... which also strayed from 'her' bridegroom, and committed adultery, whose hearts may also be hard, etc. Is that also racist to say?

Peace,

tammy

myelaine

dear Tammy...

you said: "Yes, love God, and love your neighbor as yourself."...

the love God part is the part that you seem to try to contravene using the other scriptures as proof texts. You imply that people don't have to repent and turn to God for forgiveness of sins and salvation as long as they are good and nice to Christs brothers. In the context of the whole gospel Jesus said the opposite of that.

for instance would you ever say to OUTLAW or Adamah or anyone, " you must turn to Jesus Christ for forgiveness of you sins and salvation or you will be lost and die in you sins?"...(we've been through this before and I know that you completely danced around the question and basicly answered that you'll leave the judging to Christ. Jesus Christ said that if you do not believe in Him you will die in your sins. He commissioned us to teach people this and make disciples...He gave His disciples authority to teach this...not what you teach.)

yes Israel had hard hearts but the fact is that they were chosen out of all the nations of the earth to be a blessing HOWEVER that might have played out. They still to this day represent TO US a people who crafted the LOVE GOD ABOVE ALL ELSE theme. So people without the law do by nature thing in the law...what law are you refering to? loving neighbour?...loving God and neighbour?...all 360 laws in addition to the 10?...do people find forgiveness of their sin and salvation in any law keeping? What does scripture say about that?

love michelle

cofty

and how many comments here are against Islam and ALL Muslims... Cofty...? - Tammy

I despise Islam with a passion but Islam is not a race it is a religion.

tec

Don't suppose you are going to answer the questions that I asked you, are you Michelle?

They are quite specific, and might show you something ABOUT the gospel, that you are not seeing at the moment.

Peace,

tammy

tec

You make judgments against everyone who is a member of that religion, regardless of whether they do or believe the same things or not. Is there a word for that? Prejudiced, perhaps? It still creates a bias against all Muslims, does it not?

I don't despise Israel - whether one is a Jew or of a different tribe. I feel exactly the opposite.

Peace,

tammy

cofty

You say Jews have hard hearts. This is racism.

I say Islam is a hateful religion. This is a fact.

tec

Yeah... I didn't say that, Cofty. You're doing that thing you do... where you twist words to make false statements about someone.

Israel's hearts were hard. (the Jews, once again, are only a small portion of Israel) I suppose you could take that up with the prophets OF Israel though. Or the God OF Israel, from whom the prophets spoke.

Obviously not all of Israel. As has been explained. I mean, the prophets were Israel also, were they not?

Doesn't mean that they were not or are not loved by God. Doesn't mean the hearts of others, other than Israel, are not also hard.

And I am afraid that I cannot put much stock in your fact... as Islam also has divisions and sects, and is not all united/one.

Peace,

tammy

Fallacies about Faith

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