Those were the " Good Ol' days " jnat
Ain't nothin like a factory on fire to boot
Those were the days
Religion VS Atheism and the decline of ethics and morals
by EndofMysteries 82 Replies latest watchtower bible
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DJS
EOM,
The U.S government did some very good things in the early 20th century to help workers, primarily breaking up monopolies and reigning in to some degree the robber barons and industrial tycoons. They also did some good things in the mid-20th Century with wage and hour laws, etc. Give them credit for that. But the rosy picture you paint isn't even close to accurate. Some things have gotten back out of alignment, such as the minimum wage and income disparity, both of which need to be addressed. And they are bit by bit, but the rich will always tend to get richer and the poor poorer. It is inevitable, a mathematical formula. Governments try to level the playing field through a variety of means, but if you think the good ole days were that good you simply don't understand history.
Try watching some of the old movies from the 30s, 40s and 50s. Notice how the boss or the man in charge spoke to people when they screwed up. He spoke AT them. The movies were simply reflecting real life. The foreman/supervisor was typically the heaviest handed double y chromosome alpha male who would drive employees. The 'ethics' of the workplace, as regards employees, has improved tremendously in the past few decades. It isn't even close.
You keep trying to make a point that simply isn't there.
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Band on the Run
EOM,
We sort of piled up on you. You were only repeating what your ethics prof asserted in class. I must admit I see no correlation between religiosity and manners or ethics. In fact, I often see a negative correlation. Do you believe what your prof. asserted? Did no one in class challenge his assumption? Seems as though a college ed. has declined over the decades. I thought he was supposed to teach ethics so you could figure out real life situations on your own. The New York Times has an ethicist. I believe. It is interesting to read b/c sometimes I would have chose another way.
There are some online manners forums that discuss hard questions.
Is there something that we are missing? It is predictable that people here would see a negative correlation between ethics and religious belief. I think that Liberty or Regent University students would find a favorable correlation.
I read a lot of history. We seem to be on an upswing. Yes, the kids are very scary. My generation was scary. Egyptians found their kids rude. As Outlaw said, kids are kids. They might develop some backbone when they are forced to deal with a crisis.
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kaik
EOM, the industrial employers of the 19th and prewar 20th century were horrible. People often did not get paid. Sometimes they got coupons that were valid only at employer's shop for horribly overprices basic goods. Women before 1920 were not paid, employers abused them, raped them, beat them up. Workers often rebelled and killed managers and foremen. Army or national guards have to be called in to suppress the riots and killed dozens people. We have not seen anything on these scale after 1945.
School violence were also in the past. Charles University in Prague in medieval times had share of them since 1348. Professors were lynched, one student killed three in rage in 1480's, so on. In 1945 high school girl put revenge on her classmates in small Bohemian city by snitching them to local Gestapo fabricating story that they were supporting partisans. Gestapo shoot them outside the school. In 1936 teachers were responsible for drowning of 31 children, the parents lynched the teachers... I do not get the notion where people would claim the past was always better.
Youth were always considered wicked, spoiled, etc. Emperor Octavian complained about lose morals of Roman population, especially youth so he forbid public kissing and enforced censorship. Renaissance zealots complained how much the youth is rotten due all the social changes and upheaval of the era. Any century, any generation will whine and complain about the youth and idealize the long lost time.
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tootired2care
the good old days - THEN - when businesses took care of their employees and rewarded for years of service and gave fair pay.
I'm guessing "the good old days" that you're talking about didn't include the mass labor exploitations of the Industrial Revolution.
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kaik
Yeah, no wonder during the French or Russian revolutions, all these rich employers were losing heads.
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apostatethunder
A lot of people seem to forget that our culture in Western countries is Christian, and that it has been so for two thousand years.
Starting with the Reformation wars and crimes, the French and Russian Revolution and today's proliferation of fanatic cults, it seems clear that what all these events have in common is their contempt for this original Christian heritage.
Secret societies have been the most murderous and disgusting force in human history so far, and for some reason they all share this hatred against Christianity unless when they use it to control other people's private lives with it.
Those who are not particularly rational, emotional or spiritual don't like to be at the bottom of the piramyd where they belong, so they build another one where they can be at the top without being particularly smart, humane or spiritually developed. Hence the secrecy.
You can be moral without religion, sure, but our religion is our tradition, it explains our culture and it forms our values. Without it, you reject thousands of years of accumulated wisdom, won't understand your own culture and heritage and will have whatever values suit you or somebody else manufactures for you.
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jgnat
contempt for this original Christian heritage - apostatethunder
Contempt or a reaction to the abuses? Also, Christianity has never been static, adapting to circumstance. Take Constantine for instance, who systemized Christianity, and introduced forced conversion?
thousands of years of accumulated wisdom - apostatethunder
You mean like the tacking sailboat? Changing direction and pretending it is progress?
From my experience, revolutions are movements of the people, not secret societies. They are reactions to specific abuses of those in power. They are not particularly unintelligent or emotional. At least no more than anyone else.
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Viviane
Those who are not particularly rational, emotional or spiritual don't like to be at the bottom of the piramyd where they belong
Nothing like a dose of "I'm better than you because I have religion" BS to start my day....
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Caedes
Apostatethunder
A lot of people seem to forget that our culture in Western countries is Christian, and that it has been so for two thousand years.
For thousands of years before that we had different gods, so does the amount of time that something is believed have some sort of bearing on the veracity of the claim?
Starting with the Reformation wars and crimes, the French and Russian Revolution and today's proliferation of fanatic cults, it seems clear that what all these events have in common is their contempt for this original Christian heritage.
If that is true perhaps the religious should be asking what they do to engender such hatred? Maybe it is the corruption, the abuse of power, the powermongering, the politics or maybe the kiddy fiddling? Maybe it is the fact that the church is far too happy to help maintain a status quo of raging inequality or maybe it's because they simply do too little for the societies that support them.
Secret societies have been the most murderous and disgusting force in human history so far, and for some reason they all share this hatred against Christianity unless when they use it to control other people's private lives with it.
If a society was truly secret you wouldn't know about it, the clue is in the name. As opposed to when christians wish to control peoples private lives?
Those who are not particularly rational, emotional or spiritual don't like to be at the bottom of the piramyd where they belong, so they build another one where they can be at the top without being particularly smart, humane or spiritually developed. Hence the secrecy.
Tell me, didn't Jesus say that his most important message was one of love? Is there not also an important lesson abou not judging or casting the first stone? In fact didnt Jesus tell you to turn the other cheek? So on a scale of Jesus to arsehole where do you think your little statement puts you?
You can be moral without religion, sure, but our religion is our tradition, it explains our culture and it forms our values. Without it, you reject thousands of years of accumulated wisdom, won't understand your own culture and heritage and will have whatever values suit you or somebody else manufactures for you.
Wow, I think I am beginning to understand why the Romans used to use you guys for lion food. Just for your information I managed to study and understand christianity (both vanilla and JW flavours) and history without being a christian. Secular history and rejection of religion has been just as much a part of western history as faith has been.
