Religion VS Atheism and the decline of ethics and morals

by EndofMysteries 82 Replies latest watchtower bible

• 

  Terry

  When I was a kid, we were all taught table manners because a family eating together at a table was considered NORMAL.

  Further, social etiquette was held up to be preferred behavior by enlightened folks.

  Manners could be a burden if carried too far; it kept things orderly and a sense of decorum prevailed. Mostly.

  Films were shown in elementary school and Jr.High about standing when an older person walked into a room, or pulling out a chair or helping

  open a door. Courtesy was recommended because respect for others made you a different kind of person.

  There were and are many, many reasons mothers and fathers abruptly abandoned teaching courtesy, respect and manners.

  Etiquette is gone forever!

  "Keepin' it real," usually means something rather socially unplesant is going on--but--it's okay because "real" people do it.

  Now I confess, I'm an old guy and I grew up in a different world.

  I was taught to say, "Yes, Sir and No Ma'am" to people. In fact, I still do.

  My kids do too and you would not believe the praise the receive from strangers for it. It is all too rare.

  A counterfeit social order has decended and enveloped the young and the young who give birth to and rear the even younger: social chaos.

  It took society in general thousands of years to find workable rules of conduct. Some went way too far, admitedly. But, manners and etiquette

  provided us with a kind of aesthetic ritual of social beauty with polished conversation elegant mannerisms even while eating. These do not, for the most part, exist today. Sadly.

  The only thing any of us can do is set an example.

  Let me tell you something about what I mean. . .

  I always thought the European style of using a knife and fork looked admirably polished and sophisticated. So, at age 40 I got a book from the library and studied how to do it! Now, if I'm at a restaurant eating, I've had strangers remark to me how "nice" it looks. Isn't that funny?

  When my kids were teenagers and all of us were going to a local Country Club for somebody's party, I rented a video about etiquette (i.e.napkins, proper forks, knives, whichs spoon to use, etc.) I sat with them and watched it.

  Afterward they looked at each other and at me and nodded.

  At the party, it was a lovely thing to behold! I see them eating out with their friends and those companions are invariably mocking in tone--AT FIRST--yet, eventually they admit it really looks wonderful.

  (On the Ellen show: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3MAjoRehqw

  or standard demonstration)

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIj5Rt-7b9I
• 

  Band on the Run

  Etiquette is not gone forever. Higher executive levels, corporate lawyers, investment bankers,etc. alll have superb manners. I bought four etiquette books when I started legal practice. My parents had no clue concerning manners. The etiquette books more than paid for themselves. Join a private club. You are expected to know manners. I attended dinner parties with finger bowls. Social correspondence on the proper stationery was important. One simply would not advance without knowledge of etiquette.

  Outside that elite world, the books caused problems. I would follow the rules. Family and high school friends never heard of the rules. I did my part, so I expected reciprocity. I prefer the world of etiquette. Everyone is on the same page. I can't recall why I bought the first etiquette book. It may have been the exhaustive listing of what to call US, British, and European officials or the samples of social correspondence.

  I never was exposed to such matters before the books. The book discouraged greeting cards. Social notes with a monogram that were mostly blank were encouraged. They are small so one need only write a few personal sentence. The books have samples that I change a bit. There are online samples. Once I was in a rush to write a condolence letter to a Lutheran minister who worsihpped in our Episcopal church. I decided to go for something fresh. There was a scripture about the daughters of Zion weeping. It did not sound familiar. When I found the site again, I noticed that in bold, large letters it announced it a Jewish etiquette site. I thought there were Christian scriptures later in the article. I had already mailed the condolence letter. It was funny and embarassing. He was very Jesus oriented. I am certain my letter was unique.
• 

  wasblind

  Apostatethunder said :

  .

  " A lot of people seem to forget that our culture is christian........ "

  .

  " Those who are not particularly rational , emotional, or spiritual, don't like to be at the bottom of the pyramid where they belong so they build another one where they can be on top without being particularly smart , humane, or spiritually developed........."

  .

  " But religion is our tradition , It explains our culture , and it forms our values, Without it, you reject thousands of years of accumulated wisdom......."

  .

  .

  Apostathunder , I believe you made the same " justifications " as the Southern Slave Master

  who forced their beliefs on the African slave

  .

  .

  Apostate thunder also said :

  .

  " Won't understand your own culture and heritage and will have whatever values suit you or somebody else manufactures for you....."

  .

  .

  Exactly

  I couldn't even begin to tell you what tribe my ancestors were from

  or what thier religious practices were

  .

  .

  Because those who believed as you do

  thought it would be better to force thier " Christian " ( And I use that word lightly ) culture and beliefs on others

  .

  .

  And ever scince I can remember my family has practiced

  not the religion of our African ancestors

  .

  .

  But what some one else had forced upon them

  and what my ancestos learned to embrace though the centuries

  here in the west

  .

  .

  It's a cryin' shame that folks still assume that someone is of the lesser because of thier education level, culture or belief

  .

  .
• 

  yadda yadda 2

  "...decline of ethics and morals"

  Huh?

  You mean the decline of the dark ages, the decline of the inquisition, the decline of continent engulfing wars killing tens of millions, the decline of despots?

  The only thing that's declining is religious superstition and incredulity, totalitarianism, utopianism and romantic nationalism. May they all rot in hell.

  
• 

  moomanchu

  Well one thing you can't argue is the decline in religion hasn't caused a decline in condescending, mocking and insulting

  behaviour towards those that still believe in God. Woo Hoo let me have it LOL.
• 

  jgnat

  Secular history and rejection of religion has been just as much a part of western history as faith has been. - caedes

  Hear, hear. Most shameful considering my heritage, I have just now discovered Robbie Burns.

  http://www.robertburns.org/works/496.shtml
• 

  kaik

  French and Russian Revolutions have nothing to do with a secret cults. French Revolution was outcome of financial crisis that gripped France since 1787 where American default to French creditors deepened depression. France had antiquated political and economic system, inherited from Louis XIV and XV, where Louis XVI became an accidental king unable to resolve crisis. The French Revolution started as leadership tried to solve financial crisis.

  Russian Revolution was a result of third major defeat in Russian history (Crimean and Japanese wars), when Germans overrun Russian position on Eastern Front and invaded Baltic states. Germans were slowely and surely approching a capital of the Russian empire and the Tzar was unable to reverse the defeat. German crossed into Baltic state and Ukraine, and the Revolution was an attempt of the Russian leadership to avoid total defeat. For that reason they sought for armistance and gave up control of Baltic states, Finland, and Poland. Lennin and communists rode on popular wave of masses that wanted to end war and possibly humilitating defeat. Nothing in both French and Russian revolutions were about cults.
• 

  cofty

  jgnat - Welcome to the world of the Burns.

  O wad some Pow'r the giftie gie us
  To see oursels as ithers see us!
• 

  DJS

  EOM,

  You continue to make definitive statements about things for which you have no real knowledge. School violence and shootings have been going steaidily downward for the past 15 years according to the real data. Look it up. You are being swayed by the recency effect or the horrific nature of the anomalous events which are covered continuously by big media. And as we have already told you crime of nearly every type is lower than it was decades ago. It seems your peceptions and beliefs are driving your thoughts rather than a serious analysis of the actual facts. Have we lost a bit of grace and manners? Perhaps or probably, but that isn't the same as morals and ethics. Life is much better than it was decades ago or hundreds of years ago. Humans are simply resolving conflict much better than the past. But believe what you want to believe.

  I'm bailing on this discussion as of now; you have no real intention of learning anything. You simply want to pontificate.
• 

  GrreatTeacher

  Different perspective on "Yes ma'am" and "No sir."

  I think it depends on where you live. We don't really use that much in the north. I am a teacher and the students just don't say it. In fact, the teachers agree that when kids say it, it feels cloying and, well, kind of slimy. Like Eddie Haskel on Leave it to Beaver

  These things are so often regional.

  And, please, finger bowls? I wouldn't frequent a place that uses them, however, I do enforce napkin use in the school cafeteria.