Am I wrong or right please clarify if you know

by Skeptical78 122 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Brainfloss

  Skeptical78: doesn't this new light concerning 1914 means that the wt have been preaching the wrong doctrine for decades?

  Not just decades, they've been wrong for more than a century!

  Welcome to the forum.

  AUTUALLY GENERATIONS
• 

  DATA-DOG

  @ Billythekid,

  You said, " People sure love to disprove the WT with their Past books, magazines, public talks, as if WT is the only religion that agrees with that chronology."

  Can you show me one other "Christian" religion that claims to be the "only channel", who routinely misquotes sources like archaeologists to support their claims of 1914? How about another "Christian" religion who excommunicates it's members for disagreeing with doctrines when it becomes clear they are in error?

  It's not an issue of having all the answers. It's an issue of the WTBTS claiming that it has all the answers. They claim to be the sole channel of God, and THE ONE TRUE RELIGION. The reason that people bring up the faults of the WTBTS more than other "Christian" religions, is because of the WTBTS's grandiose claims. No other "Christian" religion has all the answers, but they don't claim to. They have not placed themselves on a pedastle like the GB/WT Corporation.

  Here is a good example as to why people tend to bring out the WTBTS's hypocrisy and use of a "false stylus."

  From jwfacts.com:

  In the 2010 book God's Word for Us Through Jeremiah, a statement is made regarding a find by Eilat Mazar, supporting two Characters mentioned in Jeremiah.

  "Archaeologist Eilat Mazar reports unearthing a small clay seal impression, or bulla. (below left) It was found in 2005 during a supervised excavation of a layer dating back to when Jerusalem was destroyed in 607 B.C.E." God's Word for Us Through Jeremiahp.55

  The reader may get the impression that Eilat is supporting the year 607 B.C.E., whereas she presents that the destruction was in 587 B.C. (See articles at jpost.com andarchaeology.hui.ac.il) There was no need to mention the date 607 B.C.E., as it was not relevant to the topic, and for the sake of accuracy the writer could have referred to "when Jerusalem was destroyed by Babylon." The Watchtower inserts this date to deceitfully condition Jehovah's Witnesses that 607 B.C.E. is historically accurate.

  The above is by no means the only time the GB approve of using a "false stylus" that Jehovah hates. Perhaps if the GB/WT Corporation was not so judgmental they would not be called to account so readily by readers who are righteously indignant?

  DD
• 

  Apognophos

  Skeptical78, see Londo's post above yours. The new light was about the identity of the "faithful slave", as he explains there.
• 

  daringhart13

  LOL!!! Yes it does.

  Now....if they were truly God's "only true organization".......why isn't there a MASSIVE campaign to go back and tell millions of people....yes every single precious soul......that they were wrong and they now have new information?

  Don't hurt your head considering this basic question.....they are a cult. Start there.
• 

  billythekid46

  Let me start by saying, that I am grateful to have been part of this debate; it was never my intention to be drawn into one. I entered into this site to learn what you as teachers of the truth of Christ have enlighten the younger generation of people who have yet to learn the gospel of Christ. My purpose was not to critize anyone’s view points, but I quickly found out through rebukes from you that would not be possible. I found a need to correct the assumptions many of you have placed in the minds of your readers that are incorrect. I then wondered what might be the motivation behind this. By the most part, I began to understand the deep hatred you hold towards the WT. Many of you by whatever reason have been disfellowshipped, reproved, publicly or privately admonished. Your response to my rendition sparked an insight by which you hold the WT personally responsible. In my attempts to circumvent those thoughts, I posed my question to you all. The bible was inspired by God, and it is Gods means of ownership that through Christ we owe our servitude to him. The WT is a tool to fulfill that servitude. The GB is the faithful Witness the Discreet, nothing more, and we are all the slave class. From the 30 years I was a Witness, I never thought of them much more than that. The servitude was beholding to us, to gather knowledge with holy inspecation through prayer. Some of you don’t believe the GB can be such a member. However keep in mind that through holy inspiration the bible was written. What other religions hold such understanding. Islam through the works of the Prophet Muhammad has that theory. The Quran is based on the premise that Muhammad spoke directly to God, and inspired him to write it. You have the works of Joseph Smith that professed to have spoken to Jesus and inspired him to write the book of Mormon. You have the Roman Catholic Church that even today truly believe the Pope through prayer in a room laced in gold has personal conversations with God. Many Protestants sects believe that speaking in tongues give them a direct channel to God. Some of you personalized your removal. That’s understandable as it is with human nature, no one likes being kicked out of anything. Disfellowshipping, defrocking, disassociating, shunning, etc. are found in many religions. This is not unique to Jw. The Advents, Mormons, Scientologist, Amish, Evangelist, Catholics, etc. In some liberal religions they simply tell you, get out and don’t come back. Through Gods holy words it is meant to have you redeem yourself and prevent you from falling again into temptation. Did Jesus not tell Mary the prostitute sin no more? He also told the elders and people that wanted to punish her, he who is without sin cast the first stone. There are however more irrational shunning that are still practiced today. A Muslim that finds Christianity will be killed for his blasphemies conversion. These inserts were to answer some of the many questions that were posted in my behalf. Back to topic. I will bring it to you in parts.

  Russell did not proclaim that 1914 was the end of the world or Armageddon as some of you foolishly indicate, he was drawing parallels on Christ Kingship in heaven verses the notion that Jewish people even today believe of an earthly New Jerusalem verses a celestial one. As stated before. George Storrs and again Nelson H Barbour were drawing their conclusion based on the Miller rendition. Russell turned it into a public debate through their respective publicans, Russell advised against making such claims of the second coming of Christ or Second Advent. Russell and Storrs had a falling out due to this, and then later Barbour resigned to pursue his own doctrine. So the inferences of those dates given by you are false. 1799 was part of the Miller movement not the Bible Students just as I included 1844. 1874-1878 were suppositions held by Storrs and Barbour on the teaching of Miller and associated them with their own publications. Russell didn’t start the ZWT until 1879 and officially in 1881 which disputes your arrogant claim that those works belonged to Russell. Since there were different association between them at that time, international bible students, Independent bible students, associated bible students, etc. Russell identified more with the bible students, not the association. Perhaps you people might study more on the origin than just looking at Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia or that ridiculous jwfacts.com. The original participants of the bible students were: C.T. Russell, J.L. Russell, M.F. Russell, W.H Conley, and A.H. Macmillan that’s all.

  Quotes from various publicans: FACTS

  George Storrs was publisher of the magazine Bible Examiner, in Brooklyn, New York. Storrs, who was born on December 13, 1796, was initially stimulated to examine what the Bible says about the condition of the dead as a result of reading something published (though at the time anonymously) by a careful student of the Bible, Henry Grew, of Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. Storrs became a zealous advocate of what was called conditional immortality—the teaching that the soul is mortal and that immortality is a gift to be attained by faithful Christians. He also reasoned that since the wicked do not have immortality, there is no eternal torment. Storrs traveled extensively, lecturing on the subject of no immortality for the wicked. Among his published works was the Six Sermons, which eventually attained a distribution of 200,000 copies. Without a doubt, Storrs’ strong Bible-based views on the mortality of the soul as well as the atonement and restitution (restoration of what was lost due to Adamic sin; Acts 3:21) had a strong, positive influence on young Charles T. Russell.

  While, as the reader will have observed, we disagree with Mr. Miller’s interpretations and deductions, on almost every point—viewing the object, as well as the manner and the time, of our Lord’s coming, in a very different light

  Anxious to learn, from any quarter, whatever God had to teach, I at once wrote to Mr. Barbour, informing him of my harmony on other points and desiring to know particularly why, and upon what Scriptural evidences, he held that Christ's presence and the harvesting of the Gospel age dated from the autumn of 1874. The answer showed that my surmise had been correct, viz.: that the time arguments, chronology, etc., were the same as used by Second Adventists in 1873, and explained howMr. Barbour and Mr. J. H. Paton, of Michigan, a co-worker with him, had been regular Second Adventists up to that time; and that when the date 1874 had passed without the world being burned, and without their seeing Christ in the flesh, they were for a time dumb-founded.

  Expecting the Lord Jesus to come in 1878 to catch them up miraculously to be with him in heaven, some who had been Second Adventists (including Barbour) were disappointed when that miracle did not occur

  In 1878 Russell had a major disagreement with one of his collaborators, who had rejected the teaching that Christ’s death could be atonement for sinners. In his rebuttal Russell wrote: “Christ accomplished various good things for us in his death and resurrection. He was our substitute in death; he died the just for the unjust—all were unjust. Jesus Christ by the grace of God tasted death for every man. . . . He became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him.” He continued: “To redeem is to buy back. What did Christ buy back for all men? Life. We lost it by the disobedience of the first Adam. The second Adam [Christ] bought it back with his own life.”—Mark 10:45; Romans 5:7, 8; 1 John 2:2; 4:9, 10.
  Paton did write the article, and it was published in the December issue. After repeated unsuccessful efforts to reason on the matter with Barbour from the Scriptures, Russell broke off association with him and withdrew support from his magazine. In July 1879, Russell began to publish a new magazine—Zion’s Watch Tower

  Always a staunch advocate of the ransom doctrine, Russell severed all ties with this former collaborator. In July 1879, Russell started to publish Zion’s Watch Tower and Herald of Christ’s Presence, known worldwide today as The Watchtower—Announcing Jehovah’s Kingdom.
• 

  Jeffro

  Your lengthy rant has absolutely no information in support of your claims about when the Bible Students abandoned their beliefs about 1874 and 1878, and I've already provided specific details in this thread about when they were abandoned. You try to focus a great deal on Russell's split with Barbour, as a result of some changes in Russell's views. However, it has absolutely no bearing on the Bible Student's beliefs about 1914 after the split.
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  billythekid46

  So then, people should just trust in fools like you Jeffro, your god now, your that perfect human being to enlighten the world with being the false prophet?
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  Phizzy

  Ad hominem attack Alert !

  Billy the kid 46 just lost any credibility.

  As someone above wrote, go away Billy, do your own research, and then come bacl with some proof for us. At present you are simply exposing your ignorance of the facts.
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  Apognophos

  billythekid46, kindly shut up. We don't need to hear your sanctimonious, incoherent rants. You've also completely ruined this introductory thread by a new member who had a specific question unrelated to your rants. Jeffro has looked very carefully at the same source material that has allowed the majority of historians to accept 587/586BC as the date of the destruction of Jerusalem. He, unlike you, is dispassionate and objective. You, sir, have a lot of deprogramming to do before you can separate fact from Watchtower fiction.
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  Jeffro

  billythekid46:

  So then, people should just trust in fools like you Jeffro, your god now, your that perfect human being to enlighten the world with being the false prophet?

  Unable to actually provide any facts, he resorts to childish insults based on nothing.

  And it's you're, not your.