Bill Bowen's Use of "Fake Precision"

by Psychdigg 70 Replies latest jw friends

jerome

I think i'm going to bed.
I'll have to taake this up tomorrow.
jerome
sleepy class
lastcall

I've said this before but.... I really don't think there is anymore or less pedophillia in the org than anywhere else. This is a social problem that is everywhere. I also think that Psych has made some valid points about numbers. I myself am suspicious of Bill Bowen. I don't know the man so that is almost automatic.
That said ... Psych, just keep an open mind. Don't get in this routine where you feel that defending an organization of MEN is equivilant to defending God'd name. It just isn't. Don't serve an organization. Think about it. It's insane bro. Keep tuning in. Don't take the critisism of the organization personally, just listen and gleen, but think indepenently from the WT.
dungbeetle

I gave this issue its own post, for the benefit of future JW.COM'ers, but here it is for all on this thread, since psych brought up the 'spiritual paradise' card...I suggest in the future when psycc spews out the psychobabble, cut and paste this posts and others like it with nor further commentary needed...
This is why I LOVE this open forum. Watchtower diss**t apologists like Psych get on here and spout off dumb stuff like this religion isn't God's channel because it has the truth (or not,?)but because of love among themselves. Then I get riled up and make a post like this.
LOVE AMONG THEMSLEVES? LOVE AMONG THEMSELVES?
In the last year, in the U.S and one in France, at least 9 Jehovah’s Witness children were murdered, and all by primary caregivers— who they should have been able to trust. Those caregivers probably gave off a variety of unmistakable signals that their families were in crises, but JW’s not having any use for ‘worldly knowledge or ‘higher education’ of course could not possibly have noted these signs. Certainly their ‘untrained volunteer’ window-washing-Fried-Chicken-swing-shift-managers-clergy most certainly did not see the signs.
I think about 4,000 children under the age of 13 are murdered in the U.S every year, equalling about .0004.
If Jehovah’s Witness children make up 1/5th of Witnesses in the U.S., that would be 200,000 children. (fewer actually, since we’re talking under age 13.) That means 8 JW children in the US (and probably far fewer) should have been murdered…there were eight, and those are the ones WE KNOW ABOUT.
No matter how badly I skew my figures, the murder rate of the children of JW’s for the year 2001-2002 was atrocious, even compared to the population at large. Why should ANY JW children be murdered? It certainly is not far better. It certainly is NOT a spiritual paradise. Not for the children. NEVER for the children.
The happiest people in the world, eh? The people most certanly walking in Christ’s footsteps eh?
What pisses me off the most? Just like the molestation issue—not one word in the publications or at the public meetings; Watchtower goes on and on about how the Nazis mistreated the poor Witnesses in 1933-1945…But these CHILDREN WERE MURDERED IN THE LAST YEAR. Why is this issue not on the Watchtower’s website?
Because Watchtower doesn’t care about it’s children, never did and never will.
We here at JW.COM will not forget…. [/b]
http://www.ncpa.org/pi/crime/pd032900g.html
Psyc, shove some of THIS 'Christ's love' up you a**. [/b]
UADNA-US (Unseen Apostate Directorate of North America-United States)
Mazza

dungbeetle, so you are saying that statistically jws are on target for these crimes? I would have thought that Bill's figures were statistically on target also. Witnesses who hear about such problems in the Org, can't get their heads around this stuff - even if the Tower posted the information, they wouldn't be able to process it in it's proper manner e.g. that they are just an average religion with average problems. So they have to deny or forget the facts. I was watching a BBC item about molestation in the catholic church last nite and basically they didn't want to know either. It's not because of the leaders that this stuff is out in the open. And it's the reason it's gone on so long - denial - it caused tens of thousands more kids to go on being molested.
The witnesses have got a loooooooooooooong way to go because their need to deny is stronger than the others, coz they got the troof and it can't be happening to them right?
Cassiline

Lastcall,
"I've said this before but.... I really don't think there is anymore or less pedophillia in the org than anywhere else"
_____________________________________________________
This IS not the issue IMO that is a problem. Its HOW the WTBTS handles the cases of the pedophiles. They re-victimize the person bringing charges of sexual molestation. It's also not reported to outside authorities.
When I say re-victimize the person I mean that the elders, because of policy the WTBTS refuse to act on such allegations if 2 witnesses are not present. That being the case the victim is tossed aside UNLESS the perpetrator Admits to wrongdoing.
And if that person is repentant then its up to the JC to decide the punishment be it disfellowshipping, private or public reprove.
If the molester is repentant then the latter punishment usually is set in place. Leaving the victim to face his/her tormentor daily. Without validation, the victims don't see a true punishment for such unspeakable acts.
Since you don't know Bill Bowen why don't try to? He is a very open man and easily accessible.
C
When the pain of being where we are, becomes greater than our fear of letting go...we will risk and heal and grow.
noidea

Goodnight....jerome
~~~Noi~~~
***********
Member of the: I have ~No-Idea~ class.
Cygnus

dungbeetle,
When you first started posting here you made a lot of sense and I respected your viewpoint. Now you come across as a raving maniac. It is difficult to take you seriously any longer.
The dude who started this thread has a very good point. Bowen should forget about trying to make "Watchtower" look bad and instead focus on the real problem.
new boy

Blind faith is so wonderful.
Its great, don't have to think anymore at all!
Just read what they give us to read.
My daughter and sister in-law both were both molested. it was covered up, Hay! forget about 25,000. how many cover ups are O.K. 1000? 100? or 2. What are acceptable numbers, to keep the WTB&TS out of the press, You guys can sacrifice a few children for God right? You are serving men not God.
"Like white washed graves"
Get your head out of the sand and your ASS!
Grunt

Psych.,
Glad you are here. Real glad you don't think the Witnesses have the "Truth." You are doing well. Now keep on going. About the numbers of molesters, I don't know the numbers. I do know the documented cases I have seen put up. The case of the young lady named Erica in Washington state that was raped and molested by an elder, moved to California where she was raped and molested by another elder, related to the first if I remember right. She had the courage to come back as an adult and press charges, it turned out she was not the only one this pervert had bothered. He is now doing time for it, the other elder got off due to some kind of statute of limitations, so he is still out there loose and around kids as far as I know. If you want the facts on that you can read the whole trial. Then there was another case in Mass. where the guy was convicted, once again he is doing time as we speak. Now this bird who molested his own grandchild, no one is denying that he did it are they??? Nope. Many, many on this board have experiences like that, look at Hyghlandyr's story if you need a fresh one. You don't deny these do you? No. Do you know what all the convicted ones had in common whose trials I read??? In every case Witnesses were there saying, "I would trust Brother __________ with my kids!!!!" which is exactly the problem. They did. Have you been reading the news the last year or so? Are you aware of the Witness associated family slayings that have occured? The one in Atlanta just hoping to make sure his kids made it into the "New System." Killed them with a hammer I believe it was. The one on the West Coast who'd been shunned, used a shotgun I believe. NO, there are perverts and crazies in every religion, the difference is how they are dealt with, the "Love" you speak of is no more prevalent among Witness than any other religion and is in fact much more shallow. You don't have to commit a biblical sin like theft, or murder or any sexual sin to become "shunned" by the Witnesses. Their love is shallow enough to shun you over any organizational rule breaking. IN FACT they have made family love so shallow that it too is conditional to accepting the full range of organizational details. If they change back after the shunning to what the person being shunned had believed, he is still shunned. I committed no moral sin. I just asked my daughter to explain the current understanding on the seven thousand year creative days, and where we are in the stream of time. She shared my letter with her elders, they advised her that I had said nothing "wrong" but that being around me might "damage" her faith. I haven't been to her home now in three years. She returned the keys to the car she had been borrowing along with a letter, a business letter really, letting me know that she had to "alter" our relationship. Haven't been in her home in years now. Poor child. Poor, poor child. But oh so loving.
She had no childhood like Hyghlandyrs, she had only all her mom and my love and I worked two jobs to see that she had piano lessons, a piano and the prom dresses, money for trips and science fairs, in short all she needed. She repays us with pain. She strains at a gnat and swallows a camel. Won't have me in her home due to my questioning a chronology which varies and yet breaks one of the Ten Commandments, "Honor your Mother and Father." Love. Tell it to a different group. We know all about LOVE as defined by the cult you belong to. I hope you wake up. You have already said and done enough to be shunned yourself. Best you don't mention being here to any buddies or family members that you want to keep. On an "apostate board" saying you Don't believe the Witnesses have the Truth, Ouch. That wouldn't play well. That might be as bad as wondering whether we are still in the period where Adam was naming the animals, that's the one that cost me a daughter. Poor, poor child. I only wish she were on a board like this talking with ex-witnesses that could help her. I would buy her a new car if she'd just become a regular poster here and really discuss issues. I should probably make the offer, with the Witness outlook, she'd probably take it. No more food at the conventions, donations only for tax purposes, heck, I bet she would take it.
BeautifulGarbage

I also believe that this is more of an issue of how the society handles the situation when a molester is discovered in their midst.
I just recently learned of a family member being molested by a fellow JW(an elders son to boot) which is also a family member. Were the parents instructed to call the proper authorities? Was there any concern for the victim? No way, baby!
She was told to keep her yap shut and let the elders "handle" it.
Yes, my state has manditory reporting laws, FYI.
Andee

Bill Bowen's Use of "Fake Precision"

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