Perry, Hi there! How is your family? Good to see back among the black sheep :)
Have you read Doug Mason's monograph on "God-breathed?" i.e. "inspired" ?
God Says Scripture is Enough
by Perry 108 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Viviane
When I totally trusted in Jesus alone about 9 years ago, things started to change, steadily gaining momentum.
What, specifically, is Jesus doing and how is he doing these things? Describe the mechanism by which he implements these changes.
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designs
Say the prayer, Perry, to the great Amen that will end starvation. Please.
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DJS
Perry,
I'm not glad that you are back, but you do seem to have ratcheted back some of your preaching and are less llikely to enter non-theist posts with nothing but your jesus mantras. I thank you for that. Viv and Designs: good luck trying to reach Perry. Don't give up though because it seems, over time, we have had some success in tempering the pontificatory preaching and proseletyzing of the newly (self) appointed Governing Body members of this site and those delusional narcissists who have a direct link to the big girl in the sky and special knowledge of scripture and how the big girl thinks. Some even seem to have gone away, probably to the Rev's site where their narcissistic, delusional mantras can be read and fawned over by each other.
So continue figting the fine fight. We are winning a lot of small battles and likely a lot of big ones as well.
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Phizzy
I concur with Terry, read Doug Mason's excellent paper, read too Doug's comments on his own thread which introduces his paper, and gives us the link to download it.
Doug points out there in his comments, not a new point, but one certainly missed by JW's, is that when the writer of Timothy refers to "Scripture" he can only be referring to the Hebrew writings familiar to those such as Timothy.
The Bible as we have it today did not exist for another couple of hundred years.
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AndDontCallMeShirley
@ Perry: Oh I tried for 40 years to be the man that I imagined
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"Do or do not. There is no try." --- Yoda
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You see, Perry, your failure is fully attributable to the fact that you were only trying instead of doing, all the while waiting for god/the tooth fairy/fill-in- the-blank-with-your-fictional-character-of-choice here, to do your work for you. Even if the whole 'god does the heavy lifting for you' concept was true, why would you feel any desire to serve a god who created you so woefully inadequate that you can't get yourself through life without his having to change your diapers for you everyday???
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@ Perry: Oh I am a sinner alright.
How does your self-flagellation serve you??? Is it an easy out instead of just acknowledging you still have work to do?
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Perry
Am I the only one who finds it astonishing that we ALL read that scripture a thousand times as JW's and were basically required to disbelieve it to remain members? And all this OUTSIDE of our awareness?
I find that incredibly interesting and telling about the human ability to be deceived. It is almost like we are pre-disposed to be deceived.
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designs
Perry- I bet you have Bible Dictionaries, Maps, and Encyclopedias on you book shelf right now. No one is "Bible Alone" the Bible is to old and to arcane to not have reference works to know meanings and terms it uses.
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Perry
designs,
We didn't believe God when he said what he said. We chose to disbelieve God and to believe another. We all suffered for it. It will always be this way. Before Eve sinned, she FIRST DISBELIEVED.
None of my atheist friends here (so far) care to admit that had they believed God, they could have avoided a dreadful cult. But it's true nonetheless.
I am more culpable than most for this reason: I never believed the Wt growing up (after 1975). But at age 23, I wanted to get right with God. I became active... and right before I got baptized (like a few days) an elder was listening to me get a little too excited about some scripture (can't remember which) and he made a huge point to instruct me right then and there that the Greek Scriptures (New Testament) wasn't written to me. He said it didn't apply to me. He said that the whole NT applied primarily to the 144,000 and then only by extension (what ever that means) to people like me.
My Sicilian temper rose up in my belly; I remember the heat coming into my shoulders and rising up to my head making my face red I'm sure. I didn't know whether to feel embarrassed for being so presumptous to assume that God could want to save (and spend time with) someone like me, or to repeatedly slap this man silly until he begged for mercy. So did I choose to believe God? No. I got baptized anyway and tried to WORK my way into his graces like we ALL did at one time.
God is uninterested in our works, He is very interested in our belief.
Abrraham believed God
Abraham believed God
Abraham believed God
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designs
Perry, you like every other person who has looked into the Bible is influenced by many factors- cultural, contemporary times, family, education, life experience, etc..
You views are honed from an Evangelical experience. In speaking with Catholics or Orthodox Christians they have a different perspective. But all these 1.7 Billion Christians including yourself use outside references whether it has been a Sunday School lesson or catechism or seminary. The Wt. is in the camp with the more parochial groups.
You need to stop beating yourself up, and the flip side, pounding your chest over your found spirituality.
No one is saved, no one is a sinner, Ma and Pa Adam and Eve never existed. We're all just humans traveling on this planet at the same time.