Consider the "outcome" when elders apply the two-witness "rule"

by AndersonsInfo 105 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse

  • metatron
    metatron

    Consider that we may be seeing a measure of justice done to the Watchtower because of their enormous GREED.

    Greed? Yes, the kind of greed for control that obsessed men such as Hitler or Stalin to dominate others.

    This thread seems to expose a typical foolishness by the Society: cover your a$$ in print but contradict that with "nudge-nudge, wink-wink" counsel by its representatives. The practical thing to do is make the two witness matter explicit, not ambiguous.

    Further, their greedy obsession with control has evolved into a habit of brothers calling Bethel with accounts of serious crimes - which then involve HQ in knowledge of criminal activity! This could avoided by a strong message of 'don't call us until you talk to the police'.

    I don't see that we would be debating this two witness subject except for the Watchtower's persistent greed for control and the resultant confusion from their moral cowardice.

    metatron

  • Mary
    Mary

    Utterly nauseating. Of course, JWs will simply say "...there's got to be more to it than this. We abhore child abuse!!"

    This effing pig elder who did this needs to be thrown into general population and let nature take its course.

  • LoveUniHateExams
    LoveUniHateExams

    Barbara Anderson - will there be any effort to bring this and cases like this to a wider audience in future?

    I'm from England, and saw the Panorama expose when it first aired (c. Aug/Sept 2002?). Could Panorama be persuaded to do a follow-up program?

    P.S. I hope they lock up this evil b*****d and throw away the key - and this is me being kind to him.

  • AndersonsInfo
    AndersonsInfo

    LoveUniHateExams: "Yes" in answer to your first question. "I don't know" in answer to your second question.

    Barbara

  • flipper
    flipper

    Another child abuse thread needing to be bumped up exposing WT Society abuse

  • LoveUniHateExams
    LoveUniHateExams

    Thank you for answering my questions, Barbara.

    You're doing a good job in exposing the sick crimes that the WTS tries to cover up.

    All the best

    LUHE

  • LisaRose
    LisaRose

    This is the personal decision the parents, can make, and the local branch have no autority in these personal matters., and will not take action, against these parents...

    This may be the official policy currently, but it's not like the Watchtower would ever publicly state they protect their own interests over that of the victims. The point is, what happens in actual practice? Do you have actual experience where the Watchtower reported to authorities where they weren't legally obligated to?

    The call at the Branch is to inform them, they will give you advice how to handly in such cases with respect with the local laws, and who has experience in handle such cases...this is the interpretation here in Europe about this policy of sexual abuse of minors..

    Yes, we know the Watchtower will want to give direction, but is it to really to protect the victim? Changes made after the Candace Conti verdict seem to be intended to protect their own legal interests, not the children involved.

    if neccesary they could get help from elders with brains,

    Who are these "elders with brains" ? I don't know about Europe, but here in the US most elders have no more than a high school education. Does the Watchtower have any one on staff with education and certification in these matters available for the elders to consult with? A licenced clinical social worker? A psychologist or anyone with training and experience in the field?

    Most religions require anyone who directly gives counsel to have a education in the field and many require an advanced degree. Do you really think a few weeks training in elders school gives them the necessary training to deal with sex abuse? If the original interview with the victim is not handled correctly it can make it impossible to ever determine the truth. And we still have reports of victims being made to sit with the abuser in the same room to tell their experience. This is absurd, no child should have to go through that, it's just being abused again. I don't know if I could even do that.

    But there is a difference between internal procedures thus a Congregational matter, and going to the local authorithies that can never be discussed, and is the most important thing for the savety, and the protection of the victim against the abuser..

    Yes, they do require confidentiality, but from what I have seen, it's more to protect the Watchtower than the victim. I know personally of a case where an adult JW reported that her elder father abused her as a child. He denied it, nothing was done to him, but she was given council for talking about it to others and she was threatened with a JC if she continued.

    I know most elders are well meaning and want to do what's right, but they are sometimes doing more harm than good. It's a very difficult thing to confront someone you know with an accusation like that, the average elder is just not qualified to determine the truth in these matters. They may feel an abuser is repentant and think the problem is solved, but even when they are repentant they are at high risk of abusing again, and the reality is most abusers are good at deception.

    Years before this case the Watchtower said publicly that it would be very rare that a child abuser would ever be given privileges in the congregation again, but Campos was made an elder after being caught more than once. It's obvious that their official polcy is not always what actually happens. The two witness rule makes it almost impossible to prove abuse took place, and even with a confession, confidentiality rules ensures that others in the congregation may not know that there are predators in their so called "spiritual paradise".

    This is not a case of individuals making mistakes, or an isolated incident here or there, this is a direct result of policies and practices that are there because the WTBTS and the governing body will protect themselves and their own interests above that of any victim. They have publicly berated the Cathoic church over their abuse issues, while they were paying off victims and insisting on confidentiality. They are hypocrites of the worse sort.

  • konceptual99
    konceptual99

    I know most elders are well meaning and want to do what's right, but they are sometimes doing more harm than good. It's a very difficult thing to confront someone you know with an accusation like that, the average elder is just not qualified to determine the truth in these matters. They may feel an abuser is repentant and think the problem is solved, but even when they are repentant they are at high risk of abusing again, and the reality is most abusers are good at deception.

    Years before this case the Watchtower said publicly that it would be very rare that a child abuser would ever be given privileges in the congregation again, but Campos was made an elder after being caught more than once. It's obvious that their official polcy is not always what actually happens. The two witness rule makes it almost impossible to prove abuse took place, and even with a confession, confidentiality rules ensures that others in the congregation may not know that there are predators in their so called "spiritual paradise".

    This is not a case of individuals making mistakes, or an isolated incident here or there, this is a direct result of policies and practices that are there because the WTBTS and the governing body will protect themselves and their own interests above that of any victim. They have publicly berated the Cathoic church over their abuse issues, while they were paying off victims and insisting on confidentiality. They are hypocrites of the worse sort.

    This is exactly the point that Enzo cannot get. The processes and deference to WT Legal means elders are falling into risk laden situations by default.

    Even if an abuser is known to be in the congregation, it is WT Legal (via the branch) that determines if the person is going to be treated as a "known child molester". The elders can only take steps to "protect" the congregation if WT Legal let them. Woe betide any who step out of line and have a quiet word with parents - they will be up before a JC for slander before you know it.

    Who really is being protected here?

  • steve2
    steve2

    Enzo's dogged defense of the indefensible is itself indefensible.

  • Ding
    Ding
    Where did the WT get the idea that because it follows the two witness rule with regard to organizational discipline that it's justified in hiding criminal accusations from the police?

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