The outcome is that the evidence and the conclusion is more accurate.
Consider the "outcome" when elders apply the two-witness "rule"
by AndersonsInfo 105 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse
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AlwaysBusy
talesin ~ "Indeed, if YOUR child is raped, and there are not two witnesses, YOU can be disfellowshipped for warning other parents and thereby slandering the Brother or Sister who offended them, as far as Jehovah's Organization is concerned."
This is exactly what happened to me.
AB
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baldeagle
Marked.
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Enzo
Dear Barbara, thank you for your answer.. I will give more clarification of what I said about the two witnesses rule: in the past you needed two EYE witnesses to give a testimony, so that it could be a congregational matter, and judicial action could take place.. But the difficulty in such cases like sexual abuse is that there is only one witness , the victim in this case.. how to handle such cases and being in harmony with the scriptures? The CO, said recently to me that in such cases , court rulings, DNA proof, and other proof the police can discover trough investigation, will be considered as a SECOND WITNESS, and therefore a judicial action can start against the predator, in meanwile when the process in a court is going on this not mean that the congragation can not do nothing to protect the children.. In first place he can not go in service with children, he con not play with children , a general warning can be given at the congregation, how to protect their children from predators. Parents with children will be approached and giving a warning, and to go in the service with their children as a family and in recreation...to accompagny their children to the toilet at the hall, and to be very vigilant... He will loose his privileges, and the elders have to be very vigilant..for someone this could not be sufficient.. But these are at this moment internal procedures within a Religious organisation, and I can say that changes where made trough the input and the voice of Silent Lambs witch I am grateful... But saying that JW's are doing nothing to protect children, or protecting sexual predators is not very honest, and a not very balanced view..
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Da.Furious
My comment on this topic, this was posted on another thread today:
i also checked with couple of prominent elders about the issue and they confirmed to me that since 2013/2014 the 2 witness rule is no more required for a minor reporting the abuse.
BUT, and this is a big BUT, if it was one minor reporting it there would be an issue verifying it and credibility in addition of making sure the minor is not making it up. Not sure what the situation would be, since they told me it would very tricky since such accusation can ruin individuals or families if they were untrue. But if there were 2 or more abused, on different occasions, then each one of them is considered a witness.
So i think whoever needs to verify, needs to ask the precise question (the 1 million dollar question), what if the abuse was reported by one child, how do you deal with this!
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Phizzy
You are correct with all of that Enzo, but not all Elders ae up to speed on those instructions, and of course even this is lagging behind the better Institutions who make sure abuse cannot happen in the first place.
All that you have said comes in to play after a child or vulnerable person has been raped or abused in some way.
And Defurious asked " So I think whoever needs to verify, needs to ask the precise question (the 1 million dollar question), what if the abuse was reported by one child, how do you deal with this!"
The correct answer to that is that the Elders simply report it to the Authorities, who are trained and equipped to deal with it. No blame of any kind can be attached to Elders who take this course. It is the only morally acceptable course.
They stand to be sued later if they do not do this, the child went to them as trusted authority figures, they should act as if they are.
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Enzo
da furios: thank you for your information...
phizzy: the elders when confronted with a testimony of a child, they have handle immediately: they have urge to go to the police with his parents.( in some countries mandatary report is not obbligatory at this moment), so that the inquiry can be made..by experts, and a psychiatrist.. Elders are not experts, or therapists, thus it is better that experts can do his work.. but believe me , elders who are not up to speed with those instructions will be removed... They want to avoid mistakes like in the Conti case..l
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Phizzy
I hope such Elders have the common sense to report when the perpetrator is a close family member, in which case the child may be unable to go with his/her parents to the Police.
The child may not be believed by his/her parents is another problem. The parents especially may be loath to believe the child if the perpetrator is an Elder or Pioneer or some such.
Regardless of circumstance, once the accusation has been made, it should be reported without any delay. And I mean any delay.
The child or vulnerable person is at risk of being bullied in to withdrawing the accusation, so report that minute, get help for the victim straight away from professionals.
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sir82
The CO, said recently to me that in such cases , court rulings, DNA proof, and other proof the police can discover trough investigation, will be considered as a SECOND WITNESS, and therefore a judicial action can start against the predator
This is absolutely NOT the case in the US.
At least, not yet - maybe the CO is detailing this in his latest rounds of visits?
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flipper
ENZO- Your question concerning the WT Society - " But the difficulty in such cases like sexual abuse is that there is only one witness, the victim in this case.. HOW TO HANDLE SUCH CASES AND BEING IN HARMONY WITH THE SCRIPTURES ? " I capitalized that second part to call to your attention my friend that the WT Society picks and CHOOSES which part of the scriptures they want to be in harmony with. It's kind of like " straining out the gnat but gulping down the camel " to WT leaders. Let me explain what I mean.
If WT leaders were REALLY concerned about being in HARMONY with the Bible or the ENTIRE scriptures then take a look at this next scripture and explain to me WHY they make such a big deal out of the " has to be two eyewitnesses " rule but they don't pay heed to Romans 13 : 1, 2 : " Let every soul be in subjection to the superior authorities, for there is no authority except by God, the existing authorities stand PLACED IN THEIR RELATIVE POSITIONS BY GOD . Therefore he who OPPOSES the authority has TAKEN A STAND AGAINST THE ARRANGEMENT OF GOD ; those who have TAKEN A STAND AGAINST IT will receive JUDGMENT to themselves . "
So the point I'm making is that the WT Society IF they claim to follow the scriptures - then they are SCRIPTURALLY BOUND to follow the directions of the Bible to REPORT felony child abuse to the SUPERIOR AUTHORITIES in this case police authorities FIRST and FOREMOST - BEFORE - reporting it to the WT legal department as they have been instructed by God in the scriptures to do so ! But the WT leaders and WT Society does NOT do this. They pick and choose to report child abuse when THEY deem it right and necessary- despite what police authorities say. In fact , you could go as far to say that the WT Society is aiding and abetting child abuse because WT legal department RESTRICTS elders from talking to prosecuting attorneys or the police authorities until FIRST WT legal is contacted and then WT legal gives instructions on how to proceed. So it slows up the wheels of justice and allows innocent children to continue to be molested because too much time elapses for the superior authorities to do their jobs just as the SCRIPTURES mention.
Here's the deal : WT Society will continue to pick and choose WHICH scriptures they want to apply - or ignore - based upon the needs of the WT Society. It has nothing to do with protecting the innocent child abuse victims- it has everything to do with the WT Society's financial concerns about lawsuit payouts into the millions of $$$$$ and protecting their alleged sanctimonious image to the public and the media. By ignoring Romans 13 1,2 and choosing to observe the " two eyewitness " rule it helps limit the NUMBER of child abuse cases they decide to investigate within their own walls of judicial meetings because if it doesn't meet the " two eyewitness " rule- they drop looking into the child abuse. So it's financially better for them because less cases will be there to prosecute and less money to pay out on lawsuits. And THAT my sir is the real motivation behind WT Society's faulty child abuse policies