Consider the "outcome" when elders apply the two-witness "rule"

by AndersonsInfo 105 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse

  • steve2
    steve2

    If what you say is correct Enzo, I should imagine this will be greeted as an indication that the GB acknowledges how obstructive-to-justice the 2-witness rule is.

    However, please keep in mind that, from a legal perspective, what really counts is formal written disseminated instructions which have far greater weight in any legal undertaking that hearing something via a telephone call. This is a critical distinction that cannot be over-emphasized from a legal perspective. The 'proof of the pudding', as they say, will be in seeing what you report as having heard in a formal letter from the GB to BOEs.

  • AndersonsInfo
    AndersonsInfo

    “What we are doing is simply being consistent with the Bible lawsand principles, and as much as you dislike the outcome, we have told everyone of our stand, and you can’t fault us for being consistent,” the organization said in its defense of the rule.

    It has been called to my attention that the above quote taken from the Christian Post that I attributed to Jim McCabe because of the placement of the quote by the reporter, Sami K. Martin, under a quote she identified as attributable to McCabe was in reality a quote the reporter for the Christian Post pulled from the Silent Lambs website.

    http://www.christianpost.com/news/jehovahs-witnesses-child-sex-abuse-cases-bring-religions-practices-into-question-127738/

    http://www.silentlambs.org/twowitnessrule.htm

    On that page of the Silent Lamb website the author stated:

    "Watchtower has been severely criticized for their approach, which has been depicted as legalistic and needlessly biased in favor of wrongdoers, to the detriment of children. The Watchtower response has been that, as an organization dedicated to God and to upholding Bible principles, it would be unscriptural to accept the word of a single abused child, since doing so violates the biblical passages cited above.

    “Up until now, this stance has led to a stalemate.

    “Watchtower says, in effect:You can disagree with our religion all you like, but we are a Bible-based organization, and we stand for upholding the Bible. What we are doing is simply being consistent with Bible laws and principles, and as much as you dislike the outcome, we have told everyone of our stand, and you can’t fault us for being consistent.’"

    I want to apologize to Jim McCabe for this mix-up and am actually relieved that he did not say these harsh words in the context we read them.

    I met Jim McCabe when I was in Bethel and thought him to be a kind man. His reputation was of a person who loved his religion and his wife and children so it was difficult for both Joe and me to wrap our minds around that he or anybody representing the Watchtower organization would say such an insensitive statement, especially as an attorney who is defending the Watchtower in child sexual abuse cases.

    Believing that it is in the best interests of the reading public, I will be contacting the Christian Post to discuss this situation and hope that they will endeavor to do the right thing by attributing the quote under discussion in a future article, not to the Witness organization, but to Silent Lambs.org, a website operated by a former Witness who, like me, is opposed to the use of the two-witness belief by Witness elders when there is an allegation of child abuse.

    Barbara

  • AndersonsInfo
    AndersonsInfo

    I would like to add some further comments to my last post: When I first read the quote under discussion, I wished that I could have contacted Jim McCabe to ask him why he would have said such a despicable thing. But since I'm disfellowshipped, as a Jehovah's Witness, Jim McCabe is not permitted to talk to me, and especially not me because it was made clear by a staff member in the Service Department, said after my disfellowshipping, that since I caused thousands to leave the organization when I appeared on Dateline, I am to blame for their deaths at Armageddon, so I'm the worst of the worst.

    However, back to the subject of that quote in the Christian Post. When I first read it, I spoke to an attorney, though not a Witness, about the quote, and he said he had read that quote before and thought it was attributed to McCabe so it appeared to me it was legit. Well, live and learn!

    Enzo, although I was wrong on the other issue, one thing I am sure of is unless there is in writing a change of policy, the two-witness belief as used in a JW judicial setting is still in force. As far as I know, the last thing said about this matter is found in the October 1, 2012 BOE letter. I learned in the Writing Department that the last thing in print published by the Watchtower about any theological belief or organizational rule is present policy. If you can produce a more recent statement on the need to have two witnesses when a child abuse accusation is made than what was published in the Oct. 1, 2012 letter which shows the policy has changed, we would like to see it. If there are any positive changes, I for one, would rejoice.

    October 1, 2012

    TO ALL BODIES OF ELDERS

    Re: Child abuse

    Dear Brothers:

    ---------

    Page 3

    "11. In addition, the elders should investigate every allegation of child sexual abuse. When elders learn of an accusation, in addition to this letter, they should carefully review the direction outlined in the Shepherding textbook, chapter 12, paragraphs 18-21. However, in evaluating the evidence for internal congregational purposes, they must bear in mind the Bible's clear direction: "No single witness should rise up against a man respecting any error or any sin...At the mouth of two witnesses or at the mouth of three witnesses the matter should stand good" (Deut.19:15). This requirement to consider testimony of two or three witnesses was confirmed by Jesus (Mat.18:16). Thus, although they investigate every allegation, the elders are not authorized by the Scriptures to take congregational action unless there is a confession or there are two credible witnesses. However, even though the elders are not authorized to take congregation action when there is only one witness, the elders should remain vigilant with regard to the conduct and activity of the accused. (See paragraph 12 of this letter.) If two persons are witnesses to separate incidents of the same kind of wrongdoing, their testimony can be deemed sufficient to take judicial action. (1 Tim. 5:19, 24, 25)" ...

    Barbara

  • sir82
    sir82

    since I caused thousands to leave the organization when I appeared on Dateline, I am to blame for their deaths at Armageddon

    Seriously?

    I knew the service guys were evil, but when you see verification of just how much so, it is still breathtaking.

  • Balaamsass2
    Balaamsass2

    Thanks Barbara.

    In my old flock book from about 15 yrs ago, the CO had us eventually add to the last paragraph "or A witness and overwhelming circumstantial evidence". I see they dropped that in 2012....hummm.....why?

    What I find interesting, is how WTBTS has FREQUENTLY IGNORED multiple incidents as "multiple witnesses" and RE-APPOINTED servants and elders AFTER removing them for abuse.

    Unless someone is just not cross indexing names.."screwing up" at the desk..something really smells in Denmark. Both of us know some of the people who were on the desk in the past...my friend had to strictly follow written directions and orders on EVERY case- no cowboys ( going off the reservation was for overseers like M. Ca. and Teddy J. ) However these recent cases are all repeat offenders. A local serial molester was recently appointed an Elder and given a part at the recent Convention......!!!!!!!! (His case was personally reviewed by a GOVERNING BODY member!)

    Your records and documentation(on your site ) are real eye openers- like the Henderson Case with multiple re-appointments and the letters between the Ciruit Overseer and the Bethel Desk.

    They will disfellowship and hound a Sister like you for speaking out....and then promote a multiple offender and show him off in front of thousands.

    Sorry, this is very dark..but my old Religion is beginning to remind me of Warren Jeffs or Jim Jones.

  • sparky1
    sparky1

    "Since I caused thousands to leave the organization when I appeared on Dateline, I am to blame for their deaths at Armageddon, so I'm the worst of the worst."- Barbara Anderson

    THE FIRST REACTION TO TRUTH IS HATRED - Tertullian

  • Pistoff
    Pistoff

    "Since I caused thousands to leave the organization when I appeared on Dateline, I am to blame for their deaths at Armageddon, so I'm the worst of the worst."

    The leaders of the WT are completely without a clue, not a shred of humility; did any of them ever, just once, do any soul searching at all over the revelations in the Dateline program??

    This issue IS the one that woke me up for good; when my nephew called me in a panic over the program, I told him it was probably just local yocal elders goofing up in Minnesota.

    I researched for hundreds of hours, and found the program to be honest and accurate.

    However, I am not worried about dying at Armageddon, as the WT keeps putting it off into the future.

    Instead, THANKS to Barb and her hard work and sacrifice in exposing the WT for what they really are: a pedophile paradise.

  • OnTheWayOut
    OnTheWayOut

    They can be consistent with their 2-witness rule. But they can emotionally support and accompany a youngster to the authorities as they should recognize that they are not the experts. They can be there for that youngster regardless of the outcome and regardless of whether they can take action according to their precious rule. They can report, cooperate with authorities, tell the congregation if the person is convicted but not DF'ed because of their precious rule. And at the very least, they can say that minors- all minors- do not go out in field recruiting without their parents EVER and that parents need to know that there may be predators among their flock.


    Edited to add: OMG, I am an inactive JW and I spoke with Barbara, I think I even ate with her husband once. I'm doomed! DOOMED I SAY!!!

  • cofty
    cofty

    Thank you Barbara for some very interesting information. Your comments on the scriptural basis for the "2 witness belief" are very significant.

  • ABibleStudent
    ABibleStudent

    Thanks Barbara!

    The two-witness rule is a good example that the WTBTS is a dangerous cult. Why would any non-government organization benefit from being investigator, prosecutor, jury, and judge? The WTBTS doesn't have a budget to do a better investigation than local law enforcment. There would be far less liability for the WTBTS to just tell JWs to file reports with local law enforcment.

    Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

    Robert

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