I somehow doubt that You Know is active in the door to door work.
DATELINE: BLACK ART OF PROPAGANDA
by You Know 165 Replies latest social current
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MegaDude
I will continue to ask....
You Know,
why are you such a coward? Why are you ducking my question?
Why don't you hold a position in the congregation? Isn't it true you are judged by members of the congregation as too unstable?
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Valis
joel, he just counts his time here...
Sincerely,
District Overbeer
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Jewel
My question is: How do you know that Bill Bowen taped his conversation without the permission of the other person involved in the call? I'm sure there was more of the conversation than the snippet we saw-how do you know he didn't say, "Hey, do mind if I tape this for the other elders dealing with this?"
I'm not saying that he did do this, but there is no evidence that the tape was gotten without permission.
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Dutchie
".....thousand have gone to prison rather than violate the law of Christ?" Give me a break. Thousands have gone to prison simply because a multimillion publishing company told them that this is one of our beliefs and if you don't adhere to it you can no longer be one of Jehovah's Witnesses. Doubtless these good JWs feel they are doing the Lord's bidding, when in actuality they are following the legislated morality of a corporation. If the Society changed its views tomorrow (which may, as we all know, be the case) those men would come running out of the prisons.
Don't blame Dateline because the religion sounds kooky and its members crackpots. He was just telling it like it is.
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WildHorses
YouKnow,
Let me ask you this.....Why is it that you and most JWs believed Dateline when they were talking about the Catholic church but you just can't believe they are telling the truth about the WT? It makes no sense to me.
Take off those rose colored glasses you have on and finally see the truth.
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bajarama
You Know said,
Not only did Bill Bowen reveal himself to be the lowest sort of slithering weasel who was willing to violate all accepted standards of ethical behavior in that regard, when he used his position as a trusted elder calling Bethel about a confidential case in order to gather damning information, the Dateline producers were all too willing to abuse their power by crossing that boundary as well.
You Know you are admitting the information was damning to The WaTChTowEr. Maybe the information was damning because The WaTChTowEr lies.
You Know Don't Know.
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waiting
Well, HEY Martini! Long time no see! Glad you stopped by - stick around, ok?
NameWithheld
by portraying us all as oddball crackpots whose religion revolves around the doctrine that we don’t celebrate birthdays and that all non-believers are possessed by the Devil and that we want them all to die - yk
Well, if the shoe fits ... you are an oddball crackpot religion. - name withheld
I vote that above should get Best Retort Prize!waiting
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borgfree
You Know, you said:
He is the one who hid the fact that he was secretly recording a conversation that the trusting brother would naturally assume was between two elders.
I was told a long time ago that anytime you call bethel, or one of the WT departments, your conversation will be recorded. I believe it is true, since I have called The WT at times and always heard a "beep" on a regular basis. That beep is required by law when you are recording someone on the telephone (at least in some states)I was never told "we are recording you" I just happened to have heard that was what the beep meant.
I wonder if the bethelite on the other end of the telephone was the only one who ever heard my conversation? What do you think?
Borgfree
"Creative minds have always been known to survive any kind of bad training." -Anna Freud
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GinnyTosken
YouKnow says:
The most shocking and disgusting aspect of the Dateline program, in my opinion, was the airing of a snippet of a private conversation that was recorded without the victim’s knowledge. Such underhanded smear tactics should be offensive to all people.
Compare:
"I have it from solid sources that Brooklyn and Patterson are now recording all incoming telephone calls." --AlanF
YouKnow continues:"Interesting. Isn't that a return to the Ray Franz purge era? Didn't they monitor phone calls then as well, only back then there were just hallway phones?" --Seeker
from "Bethel Getting Paranoid, Tightening Screws"
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=7532&site=3&page=1The government, for instance, has to get a court order to tap into private phone conversations of suspected criminals, because in a nation that ostensibly values personal freedoms it is generally recognized that people should have the freedom not to have their private conversations taped without their knowledge and played back in order to vilify or entrap them. Not only did Bill Bowen reveal himself to be the lowest sort of slithering weasel who was willing to violate all accepted standards of ethical behavior in that regard, when he used his position as a trusted elder calling Bethel about a confidential case in order to gather damning information, the Dateline producers were all too willing to abuse their power by crossing that boundary as well.
Compare:"I'm asking because I honestly don't know -- is it legal to record telephone conversations w/out the other person's knowledge? As Waiting pointed out, companies seem to make of point of telling you when you're being recorded and why." --Dedalus
While YouKnow defends the Watchtower Society, he does not consider himself subject to their ecclesiastical authority:"The legality depends on New York State law. Some states allow a person to tape their phone calls without informing the other party. Other states do not. I'm not sure on which side New York falls, but I have no doubt Legal has already worked it out." --Seeker
"Actually, Bethel is within their legal bounds in tapping phone calls. They tapped mine when I was at the house. If they were on a witch-hunt it was legal because it is considered their private property. Sucks don't it........." --Black Man
"When a call is only between party "A" and party "B", then it is correct that in many states one either party "A" or "B" can record the call wihtout the consent or knowledge of the other party. Maryland is one of the states that is an exception to this rule." --Amazing
"I work for a Texas firm that regularly and legally records conversations without the knowledge of the person called. The states that prohibit such recording are:
Washington
Montana
Maryland
Mass
Pennsylvania
California
Nevada
New Hampshire" --paulvarjakfrom "Bethel Getting Paranoid, Tightening Screws"
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=7532&site=3&page=1YouKnow also confirms this contractual agreement to abide by the ecclesiastical authority of Jehovah’s Witnesses:
GinnyWhen you became one of Jehovah's Witnesses you had to meet certain qualifications. You didn't just walk in off the street and say you were a Witness. You had to become approved. You agreed to live by Christian morals and you also accepted the consequences of being disapproved by the congregation if ever you flagrantly violated the Bible's standard. You also agreed to accept the authority of the Watchtower Society to establish what was going to be taught as official doctrine within the congregation. You acknowledged as well the authority of the older men within the congregation and you agreed to be submissive to them. If now you no longer agree to any of those tenets of your faith you are no longer qualified to be one of Jehovah's Witness. And just as you had to originally be accepted and approved by the congregation in order to qualify as one of Jehovah's Witnesses, you can also be disapproved and judged as unfit to be associated and recognized as one of Jehovah's Witnesses. / You Know
Stated more accurately, “You agreed to live by Christian morals as currently defined by the Watchtower Society and you also accepted the consequences of being disapproved by the congregation if ever you flagrantly violated the Bible’s standard as currently interpreted by the Watchtower Society” Following one’s Bible-trained Christian conscience is not enough; one must adhere to the Society’s interpretation of the Bible and current rules to avoid being disfellowshipped.[bolding mine]
This contract presents problems when one’s conscience conflicts with the Society’s current teaching. YouKnow is currently facing this dilemma. He questions the Society’s involvement with the United Nations as an NGO but dares not speak out in his congregation. Here are some of his comments from the thread, “A Watchtower Society lie for UN ‘association’”:
I am more convinced than ever that Jehovah's judgments are going to lay the Watchtower low and that only the faithful, those who really do love the truth and actually have faith in Jehovah, will survive the purge and eventually be restored to his favor. . . .
So while YouKnow points out that all baptized Jehovah’s Witnesses have agreed to submit to the doctrinal authority of the Society, he quietly disregards their authority and does his own thing, speculating about a time in the future when he might repudiate their doctrinal authority completely. YouKnow values his dedication to Jehovah more highly than submission to an organization. Admirable as this attitude is, still, under the Watchtower contract, this is grounds for disfellowshipping.from http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=15500&site=3&page=2There is no question but that what the organization needs is a house cleaning, beginning with the house of God, otherwise know as Bethel. Jehovah is in a perfect position to do just that. . . .
I have no interest in the petty power politics that undoubtedly go on at Bethel. Human nature naturally stratifies any organization into progressive and conservative factions. You can see that in the local congregational level and I am sure it exists at the top of the organization. . . . The only thing I am concerned with is Jehovah's will and word. That's why I am content to do my thing and let them do theirs knowing that Jehovah will do his thing in due time. And indeed, his work is strange as Isaiah testifies. At some point the brothers will realize that the sheet is too short for covering themselves with, then they will have no choice but to sit down and re-read the Bible and jetison a lot of the stuff that we have been saddled with.
The only person I have spoken to about the UN scandal is my wife. I hope that I can keep my mouth shut and not disturb my brothers with this thing. . . . Really, the Bible says that it is beauty to cover over transgression. So, I really don't want to call attention to the scandal. It's a shameful thing in my opinion. Its disgraceful. . . .
The Watchtower probably isn't going to be the agency through which those answers come during the crunch time. I think I might be in a position in the future to redirect the loyal ones more succesfully into the truth.
