Sometimes I Am Ashamed (page 16)

hillary_step

Neablis,

Thank you for your honesty and candor..and goodnight.

Best regards - HS

This post is edited as you added a sentence to your last post after I replied. This is the your addition:

You are not being rude, you make a valid point.

It's no more my business than your question to me is yours. Sorry to be a bit rude, but as you pointed out, that's how these thigns work.

The answer is that this is a public discussion board and you have posted a point of view with which I am inclined to disagree with and as such it is very much my business to question your point of view. You posted this point of view:

Ok, why do I defend my opinion. Perhaps because noone likes to be told what they can or cannot do, even if this is a perceived "telling" Maybe because I just like to hear myself speak? Maybe because people are unable to hear someone tell them what is "right" or moral without telling that person why they are wrong. Who knows?

This answered the questions that I asked you, and I thanked you for these answers. I thank you once again.

Thank you - HS

Edited by - hillary_step on 16 June 2002 4:36:21

Edited by - hillary_step on 16 June 2002 4:37:43

rmayer32

Rick,
1) The thread went beyond harmless pics of boobs. And at 2am (UK time) SImon had to make a judgement call.
2) This forum is not the appropriate place for posting explicit (and the pics were becoming increasingly explicit) pics of bums etc. The name of this site is "jehovahs-witness.com" not "tits-and-asses-.com".

Prisca,

I agree with everything you said right there and don't blame Simon for making the call to shut down that thread. All I was trying to say basically was that while there may be people posting things that aren't exactly appropriate, there are thousands of posts which are on this forum and that nobody has to click on something they wish not to view. That's all

-Rick

Marilyn

:::::::::::think it's great to have a forum provided by Simon to be able to express ourselves, and even get carried away at times. However, to try and bring the lurkers in on this seems to stretch it.

Becky, To me "lurkers" is the only issue. I am not offended by anything I've seen/read here. BUT I have many times cringed when I've read something and hoped that no one in search of information saw it. That's all I've thought. I haven't made a value judgements about the person who made the comments.

::::::::: They would be totally responsible for looking at boobs.

I spose I think that naked boobs belong on a naked boob site. At least if dubbie men go there they can't use convoluted reasoning to say that apostates are depraved. Not that they will address the issue of why they themselves are looking at a porn site.

::::::::::I do think we want to help them, but I also think we shouldn't have to be afraid of what the jw's think--I thought we left fear behind us. Our wanting to help jw's who lurk shouldn't supercede our freedom of expression.

Well, we can't help everyone. It would require a vast clean up of a lot of the things posted here. And I don't feel the forum would be that much fun if that were the case. It seems we should let the dice fall where it will. Dutchie raised a great subject for debate, but the bottom line is; THE LAW OF DEMINISHING RETURNS. Too much effort for too little return.

My hope is that Dutchie isn't too wounded by the debate. I think it's been an extremely healthy discussion and I wish I could post something that would evoke so much interest.

noidea

ANd now im really done with this debate (see you in 4 posts)

Nae.. I was not only impressed with the pic of your butt..but it was exactly 4 post when you replied..very impressive.

noidea

Prisca.....Kewl to see you were the first to post at exJW'sRaw.

From: Prisca in response to Message 1

Sent: 6/15/2002 2:02 AM

hello there, looks like I'm the first to post! Hello!

Introspection

Well, it seems to me the thing is that realistically, this kind of stuff is going to happen, and will probably keep happening. Even though this board has the JW name slapped on it, it's just another part of the internet and as such will reflect the same behaviors and content that is out there. Simon can make the call to stop it, but it will in some form or other come back from time to time. It's just how it is.

Frankly, I think the overall content simply provides a clear picture of what ex-JW's are like. There are all kinds with all different attitudes. If someone is stumbled by one post or thread they find particularly offensive, that is their own perception. To really help a person, I don't think changing their perception is the key, but rather to help them understand that they have perceptions. If you don't go that far, then it's really not helping them anyways.

So Dutchie (since I've only read the first post and a few of the other shorter responses) I have to ask, who says you are associated with this board? Yes you post here, and I do too, but I'm not "associated" with the discussions I'm not involved with. If someone else think so, that's them. I think I've said this before, but nobody said leaving the witnesses makes you a better person right? But at the same time it doesn't mean it's a reason to stay in, where you're just pretending to live life. Frankly, that's all a lot of this is, pretending. This is just a bunch of people typing messages back and forth to each other, it isn't life. That doesn't mean friendships and significant connections can't start this way, but it never fails that we get caught up with expressions of the real thing, be they text messages, nude pics, or even real people acting in... just acting, in person. Since that even happens in person you gotta figure it's a lot more watered down when it's just online stuff. Frankly, I for one just can't take it too seriously.

Simon

Well ... that was interesting reading on this bright sunday morning! (hey, it beats reading the WatchTower)

I think everyone has made some very good points from different perspectives and really everyone is right ... from where they stand. If it proves one thing it is true what they say:

You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all the people some of the time but you will never please everyone on jehovahs-witness.com

I will re-iterate again that I locked the thread because of where it looked like it was going, not where is necessarilly was although there is a strong argument that it had already gone to far. Sure, I allowed it to go on for a long time because as I've said before I prefer to take a back seat if possible. It seemed like it would be only a matter of time with people egging each other on before one of the more risque pics that were going around was posted. At 2:00am in the morning I made a decision - right for some, wrong for others but what I thought was best.

There was nothing really too wrong with any of the pics (esp. yours pierced), nothing that I had a problem with (butts or boobs) other than the volume and what the next, logical step would have been (maybe I think too much?) but I do think about people lurking whether you think I should or shouldn't.

Perhaps what would help is to imagine how the forum operates in terms of direction & content. It is not possible to have a smooth, constant level - instead, it seems to lurch from one side to another and it's hard to correct (for want of a better word) without just giving it a sharp prod so that it lurches in the other direction. Over time, flirting, joking, picture threads become more common until I have a bit of a clamp-down and then we probably go too far the other way. It's just the nature of things I guess and is why things tend to come in cycles. I try my best not too prod too hard, honest!

Apologies again if anyone takes offence at me locking the thread. It was not because of any one person or post.

mevirginia

Interesting reading.

exJW'S Raw Is this another xdub sight or did I miss the punch-line?

dmouse

sorry I'm late to the thread, just finished being over at http://www.playboy.com/

Had a quick look at the boobies thread...how anyone can be offended by that stuff is beyond me when there is so much REAL immorality in the world.

BUT, I do understand Dutchies point. We have to be aware that it MIGHT put off sincere seekers of truth (whatever that is) about the troof. Unfortunately she linked posting that sort of thing to low morals -WHICH WAS OFFENSIVE to those of DIFFERENT opinion. However I praise her for having the courage to both raise the issue and continue to respond even though she was upset.

I think Dutchie raised some valid points, worthy of reasoned debate. I wish people could learn to have differences of opinion here without getting nasty and sarcastic (I know, it happens to the everyone). We don't HAVE to have a fight to the death over every minor point or take it so personally.

Seeing posters you respect rip you to pieces is a bit like having a knife thrust into your heart, so...

(((((((((((((((Dutchie))))))))))))))))))) hope you feel better now.

There were so many good points from both sides of the argument that I am stuck in an unresolvable dichotomy...should we have those sort of threads or not?

*bites nails and looks harassed* I don't know!

Anyway, I think Simon made the right call in this instance. I don't think the thread crossed the line but it went right up to it and there was potential for it to go beyond.

Personally, on a final note, I think there tends to be too much talk about people's rights and not enough talk about their responsibilities.

Francois

I have a simple question here.

Who appointed Dutchie the moral conscience and arbiter of this board?

Simple question; it should have a simple answer.

Francois

Sometimes I Am Ashamed

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