by donkey 83 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
Donkey,
I love your threads. They just put me in such a positive mood and give me such a healthy spiritual outlook on life. Excuse while I go outback, dig a hole and jump in.
Seriously, I have no idea if there is a God or where he is. I wish this question could be answered, but it never will be. People will always continue to believe what they want to believe.
Realist... peace to you...
i don't want to read between the lines....
WONDERFUL! Then, don't... just take what I am sharing with you at face value.
Just talk to me like to a 5 year old or a mentally handicapped person....no metaphores
But I haven't been using metaphores. I HAVE been talking to you... as if you were a young child...
just plainly what is it that we should do? what is the lesson?
What "we" should do it STOP trying the "explain" and understand everything by means of what is physical... for not all is physical. And the lesson is that "we" must think, NOT like rocket scientists, but like little children. What does that entail? Faith. What is faith? The ASSURED expectation of the things HOPED for... the EVIDENT demonstration of REALITIES... though not "beheld". What does mean? It means you KNOW what you know... YOU heard it... YOU saw it... and it doesn't matter what ANYONE else thinks or believes about it. Why? Because, if nothing else... you trust. Trust who? Earthling man... who constantly and consistently misleads "us"? No. You trust God... as the one from whom such things seen and hear originate... Christ, as the one giving them to you... and yourself, as the one who indeed received them. No matter WHAT others of earthling man may tell you.
Noah... and apparently only Noah... heard a voice that told him to build an ark. Did he question himself? Or did he EXERCISE faith... and build the ark? Abraham... and apparently only Abraham... heard a voice that said, "Get up and move your family there... get up and take your son and do this and that... you are my friend... your seed...", etc., etc., etc. As did all those who heard... and hear still.
You, too, "hear", dear Realist. All kinds of things. As do all living beings. Problem is... you do not put FAITH in what you hear... but because of a fear of being thought "mad"... or "different"... or whatever... you dismiss it. You attribute it to yourself... to your "conscience" or some other "intuitive force"... even demons (for some). I, however, took a chance: I took a 'leap of faith' and QUESTIONED the 'voice' that I heard... its origin. And that's how it started.
What, then, does hearing and seeing "require" of you, dear Realist... of anyone? Money? Nope. Great intelligence? Nope. Understanding of the physical world? Nope. Theological degree? Nope. Celestial phenomena or some sort of empirical manifestation? Nope. What is required is simply faith. Which means one has to ACKNOWLEDGE the TRUTH of where such sight and sound is coming from. "We", though... are just too arrogant to do that. "We"... would RATHER say, "God told me? Yeah right... I told MYSELF... such and such." Or... "I ain't hearin' nothin'. Sure, something inside me speaks... but that ME... my OWN thoughts." I tell you... it is not. But... you have not been TAUGHT otherwise. You... like most others... have bought into the myth that God does NOT speak to us... although you actually do hear Him... all the time.
Those of us, however, that have been granted privilege to enter in and see and hear even more... are those who know who it is that speaks... and gives that One the glory for it.
my answer would be the sky is blue and one cannot go on water...
Your first answer would be that of a young child's; your second, that of an adult.
i will ask my cousin what he thinks in about 6 month (he just turned 1 the other day).
Please do.
what would be your answer to the questions?
'Off the cuff', I would reply, "Blue"... and "Sorry, but I know I don't possess enough faith just yet to do so. But, if you can give me more faith... well, then, here I go!" The first answer, because it is the simplest. The second... because it is the truth.
have you considered the possibility (at least before your encounters with God) that a spirit world simply doesn't exist?
Oh, certainly! Actually, before my encounters, I contemplated much more than that! You see, the "spirit world" as I had been TAUGHT, by religion (particularly the WTBTS), is NOTHING like the spirit world that truly is. Oh, I had some visions of granduer, let me tell you! I mean, given the descriptions that earthling man has built up, who wouldn't? But... such are borne of physical thinking, not spiritual. For example, what is "beautiful" there... is not truly considered beautiful here. There... beauty has nothing to do with physical appearance. It has to do with the CONTENT of the vessel, versus the vessel itself. Thus, the things that are considered beautiful THERE... are considered "weakness" here... and thus are despised by most.
Now, you might say, "What a minute, Shelby, humans LIKE love, joy, peace, faith, kindness, mildness, good, long-suffering and self-control." But I would reply to you that in TRUTH... humans SAY they like such things... but our treatment of one another, on almost all levels (and particularly the one for which this thread was started), proves otherwise. We honor God... and one another... with our LIPS... but our HEARTS... are truly far removed from such honor.
And as I said before, there are species which exist that we cannot see with our "naked" eye, because they are too small. Or sounds we can't hear because our ears only gauge certain frequencies. That doesn't mean, however, that they don't exist; it just means we can't see/hear them without some kind of help. The same is true of the spirit world: it most certainly exists; however, it cannot be seen without help. What is that "help"? Christ. He is the... ummmm... eyepiece, conduit, telescope, microscope... whathaveyou. THROUGH him... you can see, hear, taste, touch, smell... all that exists there... and wherever else he may "lead" you.
that it is an imagination of our mind and a crouch to explain phenomena that were/are unexplainable so far?
It is neither. If belief in all things unexplainable was simply imagination or a crutch, then every scientist who had a theory has been caught in that trap. Not being able to explain something doesn't negate its existence. Surely you know that.
the problem is this universe follows exact rules...and there is no 'physical' evidence that would lead someone to conclude that spirits exist or interact with this physical world. so unless someone sees God as you did there is no evidence for his existence or that of any other spirit creatures.
That statements seems to suggest that the physical evidence can only verify that which exists physically. Hmmm... based on that, I would have to conclude that those plantery bodies which we have not yet seen, do not exist simply because we can't/haven't seen them. But I disagree with you. Let me ask you: have you ever seen Pluto? No? Then how do YOU know it exists? Because some ELSE saw it, yes? And recorded such findings? But before there were telescopes powerful enough so that you, too, could see Pluto if you chose to... how could you know it existed? Did you not trust what someone else told you THEY saw? And true, there may have been more than one "someone else", but not seeing it yourself didn't cause you to dismiss their claim... did it?
Has not what has been seen in the spirit world been recorded? Is there not a record? Has it not been by more than one individual? Does the fact that only one individual saw something negate its existence? True, today we have photography. But what about BEFORE photography? Folks drew illustrations and pictures, yes? Aren't there records... graphic details... of what folks have saw with regard to the spirit world?
how does it work?
Simple. Through Christ, you transcend the flesh so as to be "in spirit". You leave the man that you are on the OUTSIDE... and speak/hear/see by means of the man you are on the INSIDE.
hmmm why do you say i dismiss your position?
Because you have stated... and reiterated... that unless something can be proven in a physical sense, it does not... cannot... exist. I disagree with you and say that simply because something is not manifested physically (and note, I did not say it could not be), does not mean it does not exist.
i am not aware that i did that. you made an extraordinary claim (that you have spoken to christ)...and i asked if you have a way to prove it ...
I do not think my claim extraordinary; it is simply the truth. I told such truth because "we" have been lied to... misled... long enough. I have no fear of speaking such truth, for I am not seeking the glory of men. Whether I am believed or not is irrelevant; I have no control over what others believe. As for my way of proving it, I replied that I did not... because you are asking for PHYSICAL proof... which I do not have. If, however, you are capable of realizing SPIRITUAL proof... I would be MOST happy to assist you as far as the Christ. From then on, however, it is he that must lead you. I am only a servant, and thus, I can only lead you to the Master of the Household. It is he that must lead you within the House.
i hope that is not considered arrogant.
"We" are an arrogant species, dear Realist, so I beg you not to take all of that on your lone shoulders. I, too, have my times, as my Lord constantly points out. But, I hear the truth in your words and so I apologize if my speaking truth to you singled you out somewhat. There was no offense intended.
Again, the greatest of love and peace to you!
Your servant and a slave of Christ,
SJ
Hello AGuest,
happy new year to you!
do you really have voices speaking to you all the time?
Dearest Realist... peace to you and may the coming year be happy for you, too!
Well, yes... and no. I HEAR the voices... all the time... as the spirit world is not like the physical world. It does not "shut down"; they don't sleep, etc., as we do. Now, whether they are speaking to ME "all the time" is another story - LOL!
My Lord speaks to me when I speak to him, but on occasion, his response is silence. That is rare, and fairly short, but there is always a reason (I'll give you an example one day... but I'm at work right now, so...). There are many times when he speaks first, though... and I am quite grateful for that. Usually, it is to clarify, warn, point out, caution... or provide an answer that had not come previously. Stuff like that.
As for all the other voices... I hear them, true... but they are not necessarily speaking to ME. They are speaking, true... but to themselves and others. Because there is no "flesh" there, such as we have here... you know, so that what we "think" is HIDDEN... all things are pretty much out in the open.
You see, our vessels... flesh with its blood... was actually designed to HIDE our... ummmm... "uncleanness"... that which is too "ugly" for us to look upon. Before his... sin... Adam existed in a vessel that did NOT "hide" him... his motives, intents, etc. THere was no need to, for they were "clean"... and thus beautiful. You may recall, however, that after he and Eve ate... they tried to hide! They realized... they were "naked"... exposed. And what they now saw was grotesque... shameful... so that they felt the need to HIDE it!
So, they were given "a long garment of skin" (no, dear one, NOT animal skins - LOL!)... flesh... with IT'S blood... and it is in that that we "hide". NO ONE of earthling man knows what's going on... INSIDE you... but you.
That garment, however, does not hide us from God... and Christ... or Satan/other spirits. That's why my "unclean" thought caused them to gasp and move away from me (when I went there); THEY could "see/hear" what was INSIDE me! And that's why it is said that each one of us is enticed by our OWN desire... which Satan can "see"... and exploit so that it is drawn out. Sometimes we opposed him... and win. Other times, we lose.
Spirit beings, however, have no such covering... no flesh with its blood... (flesh AND blood cannot enter)... so that what they are INSIDE... what they think, feel, etc.... is not hidden. That is why it is said of Satan, "Until unrighteousness was found... IN you."
Since they can't hide anything... it is, well, OUT there. For all to see and hear. And THAT is why my Lord said to cleanse the INSIDE of the cup (our fleshly vessel), for what we THINK is hidden is NOT and spirit beings can see and hear it, even if earthling man can't... cleanse the inside rather than the OUTSIDE. But we, earthling man... are always concerned with what people think we LOOK like... what we are on the OUTISDE, our outward physical appearance. I am guilty of it, too, from time to time. But that's because that is all WE have privy/access to for one another.
So, I can explain it to you as, well, imagine if you could hear the thoughts of every human being, even when you sleep sometimes. However, you only focus on what you wish to, what you are directed to, or what is directed specifically to you. You hear... everyone... but certain ones stand out to you, particularly when your own name is called, while others are only, well, whispering, chattering... something like that. That is what it is like. And no, it is not... ummm... bothersome. It is really no different than all of the various sounds that we hear in this world... "white noise". One might think it would be difficult to bear, but truly it's not. They voices are not... irritating... nor are they distracting, so it's no problem.
And that's it.
I hope that helps you "see" a bit more what I hear and how. Again, I bid you peace and a happy new year.
Your servant and a slave of Christ,
SJ
