What really gets my goat Shakita is that the world is depraved. people have this inane notion that we can tolerate everyinthing and anything and do whatever we want, having no compassion or love in our heart, and everything will just work itself out. Take for example the whole Clinton oral sex scandal. Most Americans found it funny. No big deal. The big deal is that it was immoral and adultery. But our moral senses are so dull, that we don't even care anymore. Overtime we hold up this as our moral fabric bumper sticker "it's no big deal" Well, it is. And we should care. If everyone truly loved their neighbor as themselves, and if we had charity in our hearts, and if we took care of the earth we were given, things wouild be so different, wouldn't they? I am sorry I went on a miny tirade, but I just have had it. After sept 11th a friend who is agnostic asked me where God was when that happened. I had to ask her where God has been in her life for the last ten years? We tell God that we don't want him in our schools, in our government, in our lives period, but he's the first person we blame when things go wrong. It's just like how everyone wants to blame someone else these days for everything. It was my parents fault, or the tabacco companies fault, or the governments fault. No-one takes responsibility for anything anymore. What you posted is truly a sad sickening story, but what is more amazing is the fact that we really can only get emotional over huge events like this. When's the last time that you wept for the homeless, or worked at a soup kitchen, or volunteered at cancer ward, or gave money to a third world child, or picked up trash on the highway, or helped an immigrant learn to read, or built a house for a welfare family, or did anything that would make a difference? I am not addressing you specifically Shakita, I am just making a general point. This world is depraved. We as humans have to admit the part that we have played in that. Is that the end, are we just to throw up our hands, and believe their is nothing to be done. No, we can each and everyone of us get out of our comfort zones, and do something to make this world a better place. After we have spent time, putting some real work in ourselves, and changing our own hearts, then we should take stock of the world and what kind of condition that it's in. Again this world is not and never will be a reflection of God's indifference towards us, it's a reflection of our indifference towards God. I am not trying to be mean, again I just feel strongly about this, and I wish we could wake up from our slumber, and realize what we are responsible for.
While God watches....
by Shakita 56 Replies latest jw friends
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Blueblades
Meadow77, the above post was for you.Blueblades
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StinkyPantz
rem-
Right On! You took the words right out of my mouth!!
Meadow77-
So we can't blame an all-powerful, PERFECT God for not stopping human suffering when he very well can, but instead we blame imperfect humans. I'm not saying that because we are imperfect, that that excuses us, but geez, if you had all the power in the universe would you allow anyone to suffer, EVER? Of course not, many if not most people would even give their lives if it meant another would not suffer. The God us yours sits by and does nothing!!! It's obvious humans won't change. What's he trying to prove?!?
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meadow77
Blueblades-I do not have all the answers, and I won't pretend that I understand everything that goes on in the form of human suffering. The only point I was trying to make is that if you trace most of human suffering it comes from a lack of love. God even said as much by saying that all commandments were summed up in loving eachother. What I am proposing is that this suffering comes at the hand of man, not God. People have a tendency toward qualifying sin. God doesn't. When you say, well when God sees someone raping someone he should do something right then. why, because the man is commited a disgusting sin? What about when we get drunk? Should God strike us down for sinning? What about when we have hate in our hearts for someone who has wronged us? God says it's the same as murder. What about when we tell a little white lie to get out of an obligation? Should we get incinerated on the spot? No, we don't because we were given free will. God watches zillions of sins everyday, and does nothing. You are angry because you think he should immediatly do something about the sins that you find detestable, but he should stay out of your backyard, right?
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StinkyPantz
Oh, I'd also like to respond to this:
If you give your child the most expensive greatest toy known to man, and the child slams the toy into the wall while playing with it, does the child have the right to curse you for giving it the toy? We have killed and stolen for wealth and land. We have butchered innocent people in the name of religion. We have done unbelievable damage to nature. We have lied and cheated to get ahead in business. We have hated and prejudged our brothers and sisters when they are different. And this is somehow the fault of a diety who gave us the greatest gift imaginable. But we threw it against a wall, and acted like it was nothing.
This illustration isn't fair. The human race is not one individual, we are millions of individuals; so to illustrate us as one child isn't accurate. Is it fair to punish everyone, even if only some of the children don't appreciate the gift? Do you discipline all of the children when one misbehaves? That's ludicrous! -
StinkyPantz
The only conclusion I can make is that "God's" design of us was flawed. . . . We have abused the free will he gave us, and will most likely never change. But instead of changing his design or resetting everything, he's going to do something that most humans would never think of doing and that's sit back and watch us destroy ourselves instead of doing the HUMANE thing which is, end the suffering, cruelty and pain.
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Yizuman
Mankind has always blamed God for whatever has gone wrong rather than blaming the free will of man who do evil things to human beings. It's part of our nature. We blame God. We complain to God. We even tried to tell God what to do and what He should do. We moan, groan and bellyache about everything. Even man blames another human being for his demise. Man comes home and beats on his wife because it's the wife's fault that he had a bad day. We always have a need for a scapegoat.
God gave us a free will to chooise whatever action we choose. Good or Evil.
The good news is that Good always prevail against Evil. Even if Evil ruled over the Good of the people, the Good eventually conquers Evil sooner or later. The good of the many will always prevail against the evil of the few.
As for the atheists, they've always been around for centuries and always will be around. I would really hate to watch them stand before God on judgement day and be judged for rejecting God and the Gospel of Christ. I would hate to watch them be tossed into the lake of fire where they will burn forever and never die.
Man, I can see the look in their faces, eyes as big as saucers, knees knocking louder than a church bell. Mouths open so wide that a bird can fly in and build a nest in it. I can imagine them thinking, "Man, this ain't happening. This is all a bad dream. This is not happening!"
I don't wish it on anyone on this day, I rather see all get saved and rejoice with the Lord in victory over evil. But that's not gonna happen and I am sad.
Psalm 14:1
The fool says in his heart, "There is no God." They are corrupt, their deeds are vile; there is no one who does good.
(Whole Chapter: Psalm 14 In context: Psalm 14:1-2)Like I said before in another thread, it's their choice if they choose not to believe in God.
It's their choice if they have no desire to be saved.
It's their choice if they don't want to be in heaven.
It's their choice if they want to die in their sins rather have their sins washed by the blood of Christ who died on the cross on that very day of Calvary and be totally forgiven.
I wish all those unbelievers good luck in life.
Yizuman
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StinkyPantz
Yizuman-
Your reasoning is classic. Good, always conquers evil. . . right. . .
It's obvious we have free will to change, so does God. In all his perfect glory he still chooses to let his creation suffer. What about all of the atheists who use all of their free will to do good to others and help others because they can?
Man, I can see the look in their faces, eyes as big as saucers, knees knocking louder than a church bell. Mouths open so wide that a bird can fly in and build a nest in it. I can imagine them thinking, "Man, this ain't happening. This is all a bad dream. This is not happening!"
When they "stand before God" shocked that he exists will he acknowledge and value the good deeds that he himself refused to do? If not, then who'd want to be in heaven with such a cruel being. . .
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Satanus
Meadow
Take for example the whole Clinton oral sex scandal. Most Americans found it funny. No big deal. The big deal is that it was immoral and adultery. But our moral senses are so dull, that we don't even care anymore. Overtime we hold up this as our moral fabric bumper sticker "it's no big deal" Well, it is.
As you know very well, in the ot, jewish men of power traded in women and sex. Abraham boinked whichever of his female employees he liked. David had multiple wives, and he changed them as his hormone levels rose or fell. His spoiled son solomon knew no limits as far as sex went. While the bible doesn't go into the sordid details, w a thousand partners drawn from the various pagan nations, we can well imagine.
I don't know how you can get yourself in a knot over the few hankie pankies that clinton did, when you likely look up to these ot patriarchs. The jewish god didn't have any problems w their dalliances either. I think your bringing up this issue, or otherwise finding faults w the lives of questioners is the red herring technique used to deflect criticism away from the lack of actions of any kind from your god.
SS
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greven
The fool says in his heart, "There is no God." The wise shout it from the rooftops.
Greven.
Edited by - greven on 16 January 2003 5:11:9