I'm New (page 12)

Vidiot

stuckinarut2 - "...apostasy or thinking for yourself is far worse that even child abuse in the society's eyes..."

Not that that's saying much, considering.

@jp1692 I recall comedian Deborah Frances-White at a press conference saying in passing that "a cult is any group which doesn't allow you to leave with your dignity." Those words echoed in my mind since, at the time, my options were being shunned and losing my parents and having my reputation maligned, or suicide. I hadn't arrived at this point where I am today (with the help of you guys, especially @stuckinarut2 and @unstuck, and also @jwfacts) where I can see that there IS life after WT. It's tough at first, and I'm not sure if it was @half Banana or @mentalclarity (if I'm mistaken by the author of this idea, I deeply apologize) who likened it to having a dislocated shoulder painfully wrenched into place. Hurts like hell at first, but in the long run, I'm way better off.

@jp1692 I'm so happy you got your teaching credential, even against the so-called "better" judgement of the organization. You're very succinct and have an eloquent way of writing and conveying thoughts on here. I have no doubt you have made a profound contribution to secular society, and in turn, those on this forum who can read your advice. You remind me of James Penton. A professor and someone willing to examine his beliefs with honesty. Yet I know a sister from his congregation back in Canada who laments that this "guy thought he was all that. He took away half my congregation with his false teachings and left them with NOTHING. Their faith was shattered." I suggested to this sister that perhaps it wasn't James' responsibility to bestow upon others a new faith or religion to follow. Perhaps the most vital, fundamental thing he gave them was TRUTH. That didn't cut it. Without a new religion to go to, these members of the flock are therefore "lost". If only they could just realize that their very existence is not confined to an organization or membership of a group that can micromanage their existence. The gift of freedom is staring them in the face and they just don't want it.

mentalclarity

@wake me up...I sent you a pm

jp1692

@Wake Me, it occurred to me that, since you're new here, you might not know what a PM is.

PM = Private Message. At the top right corner of your screen is a little green icon with an envelope. Click on that to get your messages!

JP

jp1692

@Wake Me Up, I had heard of James Penton before, but didn't know much about him so I did a little research. He is an interesting man to say the least!

I appreciate the favorable comparison as "someone willing to examine his beliefs with honesty." This is not, as you well know, an easy thing to do.

There are however some significant differences between us. For one, I am a lot younger than James! ... LOL

Secondly, I was not born into this religion, but joined as a young man at a very vulnerable point in my life. (JWs, as do all cults, prey on people when they are weak).

Third, I have no illusions about trying to reform this religion, laudable as that might seem. And, while I believe that those that think they can reform this religion have only the best of intentions, I am equally certain that they are sadly deluded. The WT leadership (and I'm not convinced that the 7 men presented to us as figureheads are actually the ones in charge) are beyond redemption. They are a lost cause and, as a result, so is the religion. If it ever "reforms" it will not be during the reign of the current regime in charge.

It was 500 years ago, on October 31, 1517, that Martin Luther nailed his 95 Theses to the door of the Castle Church in Wittenberg, Germany, thus beginning the Protestant Reformation.

The Spanish Inquisition was not formally ended until 1834, more than 300 years later. Although the Catholic church does not excommunicate its members with the same frequency or ferocity as in earlier centuries, it is still a practice which is in effect, mostly for “heresy,” disobedience and issues related to women’s rights.

Things happen more quickly now, but I have no naive beliefs that the religion of JWs can ever be rehabilitated. Rather, I choose to focus my efforts on helping myself and others that have been injured by their experience in this and other cults.

So far, I am happy to say, I have been able to help many on their way to recovery! I hope to continue to be of help to many more.

JP

Wake Me Up Before You Jo-Ho

@jp1692: "I'm not convinced that the 7 men presented to us as figureheads are actually the ones in charge".

*grabs tinfoil hat and starts munching popcorn viciously* Whaaaaaaaattttt??? I sense a conspiracy theory here! Who do you think is really in charge? And don't make reference to invisible deities. I want to know your take on this!

@mentalclarity I will check my inbox now! Sorry for the slow replies to my PMs. I've just been wrecked the last couple of days after my elder debacle :(. It's been a bit physically and emotionally draining. I'll be right on it, though.

Tallon

Coming in late however, a warm welcome to the forum.

Wake Me Up Before You Jo-Ho

Hey @Tallon, thank you for comment. It's been a warm welcome here, indeed! Still trying to wrap my head around the fact that there are so many of you out there. So many supportive, helpful - and above all - THINKING former Witnesses. I'd always been told I'd be on my own if I dare left the organization. Once again, another lie I'd been told. The evidence of genuine ones out there experiencing similar situations is astonishing on here.

undercover

I'd always been told I'd be on my own if I dare left the organization.

Freudian slip. But an honest one. You said [leaving] 'the organization'. Which is how we were programmed to think. JWs don't think, 'oh, I couldn't leave Jehovah. I'd be alone in the world.' No, they think, 'I can't leave the organization'.

To recap; It's a cult.

EdenOne

Dear Wake me Up,

I'm late to this train (too busy in real life) but i have just came across your experience and I wanted to welcome you to the forum. You'll find support in here, but be prepared, because you will eventually need some support in the real world as well.

I was on both sides of the barricades - I served as an elder, and then also facing three investigation interviews and a judicial committee against 5 (!) elders, some of them bethelites. I have gained the reputation of being an apostate worse than the devil himself around here...lol

I have survived my JC because I adopted the same tactics of "spiritual warfare" that they preach - meaning, if I think you aren't worthy of knowing the truth, then I will say whatever I have to say that's at least half credible, deny accusations, fake repentance, humble myself (and mentally giving them a huge middle finger, and f**k you, a**holes). I later disassociated on my own terms, after fading out. I claimed that I was treated unfairly by the elders, witch-hunted, and that was the justification for me to not set foot again on the KH. That served me well until I managed to uproot my wife out of the cult as well. Then we both disassociated.

Thing is ... abandon hope that the elders will abide by bible principles. They will abide strictly by what the Organization will dictate them, even if it blatantly goes against what is written in the Bible. Elders are perpetually conditioned to *hate* apostates and won't listen to any of your arguments, no matter how sound and logical they may seem to you or to any reasonable person for that matter. They want to be heroes defending their holy mother and they will do whatever it takes to protect the other congregation members (including your parents, be prepared....) from your nefarious influence. It's war, and in war, anything goes.

Just try to stay away from contacts with "brothers" and "sisters", even if they seem to express genuine interest in your well-being. They will rat on you on every opportunity. Stay alert for attempts on their part to exploit your child as a mole to extract information about you. And if elders try to inquiry why you are not coming to the meetings, just use the "distress from unfair treatment" that you got from the elders that caused you to "stumble" and for the time being you have to gain some clarity and you just ask to be left alone until you may "rebuild your relationship with Jehovah". And if they say you can only heal spiritually if you remain together with the flock, just admit that you are now spiritually weak and depressed and you cannot deal with meetings for the time being. Tell them in no uncertain terms that their visits and attempts to contact you are distressing you and worsening your anxiety and depression, and you want to be left alone for the time being. Use excuses along these lines and only keep contact with your parents and AVOID talking about anything "spiritual" with them - because you may expect them to also be subject to pressure from the elders to fish for incriminatory information about you. Even if you try to explain to them why you have walked away, that will be considered an attempt to disseminate apostasy, and you may well be disfellowshipped just for that.

At this point, the elders already determined that you're an irrecoverable menace. All they want is to practice some damage control. Stay away from them as much as possible, and remember: you don't have ANY genuine friends in there, because their loyalty is to "Jehovah and His Organization" first. I also trusted people, including my own wife, and got betrayed, and went through the ropes because of it. Again: trust-no-one!

Here you will find support and understanding, but consider that you will have to start building up relationships outside these boundaries. It will be a life-saving thing in the future.

Cheers, and I hope things will improve.

I'm New

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