God won't lift a finger to help you.

by nicolaou 75 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  Halcon

  Tonus- Getting rewarded afterwards still doesn't negate his realization that his life could be upended at any moment, no matter how devoted he was to serving god. This is the nature of Jehovah, a being whose nature is unchanging. This is god, forever.

  It would seem that it isn't about our own 'complete' satisfaction in our personal life then. You may not feel the same as Job did at the end of this passage, which was "repentant" and "full of years". Repentant because he, the creation, questioned the Creator. The book itself acknowledges that God is ultimately behind job's affliction.

  The book confirms that we have as much, or as little, depending on what God sees fit. This message is clear throughout the entire Bible.

  Man expects much because he considers himself deserving. But neither of these things are clearly (by biblical accounts and our very own personal experiences) up to us to decide.
• 

  Halcon

  jeffro -How very predictable. But in addition to failing your Christian obligation at 1 Peter 3:15, you’ve also demonstrated that the Bible is used by ‘believers’ as a tedious ‘choose-your-own-adventure’ of contradictory cherry picking. Well done.

  ... imagine me accepting I've 'failed' because jeffro said so ...
• 

  TonusOH

  Halcon: The book confirms that we have as much, or as little, depending on what God sees fit. This message is clear throughout the entire Bible.

  "What God sees fit" can be literally anything. For one, standards of moral or ethical behavior are inapplicable to him. God's actions are good, just, merciful, etc because they are performed by God. Second, the Christian view is that humanity cannot redeem itself without God, and is therefore never able to earn anything better than condemnation from him. However he chooses to treat us is deserved, at best. Regardless of circumstance.

  Based on these descriptions and explanations, there is no reason to expect that the afterlife will be pleasant for anyone. We cannot earn heaven. God can take it all away at any moment and without explanation. You have no reason to believe that he will treat you in a way that you would define as good, or kind, or merciful. These terms are meaningless when applied to him. It is not a matter of understanding him, either. The explanations cannot lead us to any other outcome.
• 

  lriddle80

  It reminds me of when God waited 400 years to deliver his people from the Egyptians because "the sins of the amorites had not been full" or something like that. God was doing multiple things when he delivered his people then. Judging the Egyptian gods, judging the nation's sins, and at the same time delivering his people. Then those people stopped giving a rip about God anyway as people do. He's doing big picture stuff, sin is in the world and it will be judged and his people will get delivered. These things unfortunately take time as we learn from the bible. People in the bible prayed for 40 years before God answered. Have you prayed that long for something? Maybe the answer comes after you die? These things take time and we don't understand everything. But God is faithful and will do as he says when he sees fit.
• 

  Halcon

  Tonus-Based on these descriptions and explanations, there is no reason to expect that the afterlife will be pleasant for anyone. We cannot earn heaven.

  What is heaven? What is the afterlife? We don't know what these things are...much less begin to assess them as good or bad from a human standpoint. It's true that man tries to understand these things, but they are interpretations at best.

  You have no reason to believe that he will treat you in a way that you would define as good, or kind, or merciful. These terms are meaningless when applied to him.

  There are plenty of reasons to believe it. Job himself said "will we accept only the good from God?" If it happened as the Bible describes it, since we're going by the Bible, then there's at least a 50/50 chance for "good" in the future.

  But even if you were right, that there was zero reason to believe otherwise, what could we do about it? Absolutely nothing.
• 

  Jeffro

  Halcon:

  imagine me accepting I've 'failed' because jeffro said so ...

  Especially when you have the much easier option of cherry picking verses that make you feel better and pretending you’re pleasing an imaginary friend who will never tell you otherwise.
• 

  joey jojo

  If anyone is honest enough to look dispassionately at the universe, very quickly you realise that energy is constantly changing, flowing from state to state.

  Life on this planet is the same. Everything around us wants to take our energy for itself, just like we do with animals and plants that sustain us. Eventually we give up the energy we have and it changes state and becomes something else.

  We don't get our energy back. That's a man-made myth to help us cope with the reality of existence.
• 

  Halcon

  @jefrro

  hehehe... indeed... here's another fun Bible verse I cherry picked for you, Proverbs 27:15
• 

  Halcon

  Joey- life on this planet is the same. Everything around us wants to take our energy for itself, just like we do with animals and plants that sustain us. Eventually we give up the energy we have and it changes state and becomes something else.

  Right, not all is as it seems.
• 

  Jeffro

  Halcon:

  indeed... here's another fun Bible verse I cherry picked for you, Proverbs 27:15

  🙄

  You’re really not my type.