Supposedly the October broadcast had something about the hailstone message, but I didn't watch it.
Hailstone message AND everyone will be saved? Questions
by slimboyfat 144 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Listener
MikeJW This is what they were prepared to put in writing in regards to what Jackson said
At times, we hear someone say, “It would almost be better if my relative dies before the great tribulation begins so that there is hope for his resurrection.” There are surely kind motives behind such expressions. But a person’s eternal future does not depend on when he happens to die. Jehovah is the perfect Judge—he renders just and righteous decisions. (Read Psalm 33:4, 5.) We can be confident that “the Judge of all the earth” will do what is right.—Gen. 18:25.
I took him to mean that since unrighteous loved ones will now have an opportunity to return to them or accept them during the GT they can make it through Armageddon (as righteous).
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Mikejw
person’s eternal future does not depend on when he happens to die
This is the key. If they died beforehand they would get a resurrection and make it into paradise unless they were really really bad.
If they are still alive when Armageddon comes they would get into paradise just as if they died beforehand unless they were really really bad.
person’s eternal future does not depend on when he happens to die
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Listener
I see what you're saying Mikejw but it's just making no sense.
Here's an earlier paragraph in the latest Watchtower
We do know several things about future events. For example, we know that at Armageddon, people will be dealt with on the basis of how they have treated Christ’s brothers. (Matt. 25:40) Those judged as sheep will have shown their support for the anointed and for Christ. We also know that some of Christ’s brothers will still be on earth after the great tribulation starts and will not be taken to heaven until shortly before the outbreak of Armageddon. As long as the brothers of Christ are still on earth, it is possible that honesthearted individuals will have the opportunity to support them and the work they are doing. (Matt. 25:31, 32; Rev. 12:17) Why are those facts significant?
They are talking about the judging of the sheep and goats at Armageddon and state that the sheep must have shown their support for the annointed. Even if a person is honeshearted, they don't say they will survive Armageddon, just that they may get the opportunity to support the annointed. (and therefore survive as having been judged a sheep).
They are being very obscure.
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Mikejw
Yes very obscure.
Either they backtrack and do a U turn on the new light and it is better to die before paradise after all.
Or they don’t do a U turn and it doesn’t make a difference if an unrighteous one dies before or is alive at Armageddon.
I agree they don’t make sense
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Mikejw
Take this faithful old sister who has a son who is a drug addict. He is most definitely unrighteous and can’t kick the habit.
She used to hope he died before Armageddon so he would be in paradise. If he didn’t die he would not be in paradise as he would be killed at Armageddon.
But the new light is it makes no difference if he died before or was alive at Armageddon. Unrighteous ones have the same chance of being in paradise if they died beforehand or not.
Going by this new light BILLIONS now living will never die😂😭
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slimboyfat
That does seem to be the logic of what they’re saying, even if all their statements are not consistent at the moment.
It does seem to be a major change and it will be interesting to see how it goes. Presumably they will either explain how billions possibly surviving Armageddon makes sense in their overall teaching or they may backtrack on the implication of their latest comments. Either would be revealing of the current mindset of the GB. The fact we’re at the point where this needs clarification indicates movement by the GB in a more liberal direction.
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TonusOH
This wouldn't be the first time that they tried to leave a message vague enough that they could walk it back later. It just seems like a pretty important belief, since it would affect the future hopes of people. Maybe the new GB no longer worry about the end coming anytime soon.
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Mikejw
Tonus it’s not vague. They say clearly -
person’s eternal future does not depend on when he happens to die
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notsurewheretogo
If they are still alive when Armageddon comes they would get into paradise just as if they died beforehand unless they were really really bad.
No no that is not what it means. It means they would get into the paradise even if alive at the Big A IF their heart was deemed good by Jehoover. That is a massive difference to what you are saying.
Unrighteous ones have the same chance of being in paradise if they died beforehand or not.
Going by this new light BILLIONS now living will never dieIt doesn't mean at that all! Stop posting this crap. The new light means IF the drug taker had a righteous heart he may be saved. It's not a guarantee ALL people are saved, only those that are deemed righteous by Jehoover and that will not be billions according to their doctrine.
The new light is simply taking away their dogmatic approach as in "you must be baptised" to a more softer "Jehovah knows the heart and may preserve some even though not a follower depending on their heart".
These would be very few but appeases the mother in your example.
Unrighteous ones have the same chance of being in paradise if they died beforehand or not.
Correct, a chance, but doesn't mean they will. 99% of the unrighteous will not. It's just softening their stance not to be so rigid. There is a chance all on earth convert to being a JW but it is unlikely.
You are taking "a chance" and then suggesting it means billions will pass through. They won't according to their doctrine...it is just no longer hard and fast rule you must be a baptised JW.