Hailstone message AND everyone will be saved? Questions

by slimboyfat 144 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Mikejw

  The gay guy, who they have previously pictured as being denied boarding on the plane at Armageddon because of his baggage (not his heart condition), is the same guy that would have been resurrected had he died before. He’s the one that they said would possibly be given 100 years to make over his mind.

  Yes this was Steven Letts nephew. He killed himself because he was not attracted to females and he just couldn’t cope with the JWs shunning and shaming him.

  So he will be resurrected and maybe given 100 years or something during the 1000 year reign.

  The new light is there is no difference when a person dies or doesn’t die. So they are clearly saying he will not be destroyed at Armageddon but will be given a 100 years in the 1000 year reign to slowly come to perfection or whatever they teach.
• 

  slimboyfat

  But it is clearly not as it makes the Big A pointless.

  You seem to be operating on the assumption that if it doesn’t make sense then it can’t be what they’re saying. Is that a safe assumption from the same people who brought us the inflatable rolling generation?

  They do seem to be saying that people alive at Armageddon have as good a chance of surviving as the billions who died beforehand. If they really mean that then it would mean billions surviving. Does that make any sense in view of everything else they teach about God and salvation? No, it doesn’t seem to make sense at all. But that is to state the problem, not to solve it.
• 

  Listener

  No, it makes no sense and they must want it that way.

  In the same Watchtower they say -

  These clarifications actually make our preaching work more urgent than ever.

  Then they say they will explain why in the next article.

  The reason they give is because Armageddon is getting even closer.

  Yet, they’ve always given this as a reason as to why the preaching work is urgent.

  They may as well have said, ‘we are a month closer today than last month so it is more urgent’.

  The reality is, they’ve made it less urgent. No clocking on or off with minimum preaching hours, preaching extending into the GT and opportunity for anyone to join in the GT etc.
• 

  Listener

  As an aside, isn't it funny that they waited three months to upload the annual meeting on their website for all JWs to see and another couple to put the new light in writing but when it came to allowing beards, the announcement went out to all JWs at the same time.

  They sure have their priorities right when it comes to feeding the sheep versus issuing orders.
• 

  Mikejw

  They do seem to be saying that people alive at Armageddon have as good a chance of surviving as the billions who died beforehand. If they really mean that then it would mean billions surviving. Does that make any sense in view of everything else they teach about God and salvation? No, it doesn’t seem to make sense at all. But that is to state the problem, not to solve it.

  It’s not they seem to be saying it, they are definitely saying it. there is no ambiguity in what they are saying here.

  person’s eternal future does not depend on when he happens to die

  Unrighteous ones have the same chance of being in paradise if they died beforehand or not.

  It is clear they are saying there is no difference between those alive at Armageddon to everyone who has died throughout all of history. This is very very clearly the new light,

  it is stupid new light, but it is definitely what they say. The earth is no way large enough for billions to survive Armageddon and then for many more billions to be resurrected.
• 

  Listener

  Mike JW. What about the teaching of the sheep and goats during Armageddon? What does that achieve?
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  Mikejw

  You are pointing out an obvious contradiction.

  If you look at those two new watchtower articles and some others we had in the past about being judged on their sins in the new world and not before Armageddon. Maybe they are saying pretty much everyone will make it into paradise then judged in the new world?

  I don’t think they thought this new light through much at all. They are digging themselves in a hole and the more new light the deeper they get.

  Maybe they are saying that the Great War of Armageddon will only kill the really bad people, those who would not have gotten a resurrection anyway?

  But they would have to have been really really bad as they hint at even those in Sodom and Gomorrah and those pre flood may be resurrected.

  So maybe Armageddon will not kill that many people after all according to the new light?
• 

  notsurewheretogo

  You guys are wrong, you are reading it incorrectly. I've put what the new light means many times in here clearly but you are twisting it to mean something else.

  I don't know how else to put it clearly.

  Mikejw keeps quoting: "person’s eternal future does not depend on when he happens to die"

  This is now true, it used to be die before the Big A and you come back but if alive during the Big A and not a baptised JW you are dead forever and hence why many JW's wanted their unbelieving family members to die prior to the Big A. Remember this is talking about death NOT death at the hands of a god.

  The new light is simply saying that some that are currently unrighteous during the Big A may not get killed by Jesus but rather come through the Big A BECAUSE OF THEIR HEART CONDITION.

  So instead of a hard and fast "you ain't a baptised JW at the Big A your dead" it is now "you are not a baptised JW during the Big A but you may be saved if Jehoover deems your heart as righteous."

  I'm not sure why you are missing that Jehoover still applies this criteria to those that go through the Big A. That criteria is still applied but no longer applies JUST to baptised JW's.

  It really is that simple and doesn't mean billions of non JWs get saved at the Big A.

  It simply means JW's gets saved at the Big A PLUS some who have the right heart condition.
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  Mikejw

  Notsure if you what you say is still the case then it would be better if unrighteous loved ones died beforehand.

  But you are not right because the new light says now you don’t have to wish your unrighteous loved ones die beforehand, if they are alive during Armageddon they will have the same chance as if they died before

  yes I keep posting this direct quote from the watchtower

  person’s eternal future does not depend on when he happens to die
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  TonusOH

  Well, I agree that their newest "light" sounds like nonsense. Are you "JW Lite" people still convinced that this is the right organization to remain in? At some point, the doubts overwhelm any reason to stay in, don't they?