A Common Mistake (page 3)

Hamas

What is true ?

Who knows what is true .

My personal opinion of truth is that there is one God, and Jesus was he prophet. I strongly doubt Jesus is part of a Trinity.

You must be muslim - am I correct? I believe that they teach that Jesus is not God's son but was a prophet of God and that the bible has been mistranslated over the last few thousand years - so much so that it can not be relied on any further.

I'm only asking out of curiosity - it seems to me that many JW's when they leave either decide (1) to be athiest, (2) go to a different non-christian religion, or (3) stagnate at the "what if they're right" phase and never move on at all. I wonder how many are able to suffer the disillusionment of the JW awakening and yet remain a Christian.

heathen

Hamas-- What is true is a very good question . I seem to have gone off on what the bible says while others are convinced that the truth about the christian God can be found elsewhere. The bible does refer to Jesus as the first born of all creation and that he was the promised messiah and Gods appointed king to rule over heaven and earth a mediator between God and men. The catholic trinity is the most commonly accepted version of a trinity which is that Jesus was God and the holy spirit is God and all three are actually one being. DJ seems to have come up with an all new version to suit his idea of who God is .I did think the WT made some good points on discerning what the bible is saying about this as they too realized that many scriptures were tampered with to support some heretic philosophy. I read alot of WT literature but was not fully indoctrinated into the church because of difference of oppinion and the lack of compassion that I experienced .I do think they had some good points but are flawed in many ways . I do not have the resentment that many here do as I have not been shunned by family members and experienced some of the treatment of some other members of the forum. The destruction of the WT is not my main focus but merely to discuss difference of opinion with others. According to many theologians the bible is the only source of truth as far as mankinds relationship with God to look elsewhere for answers is considered apostasy .

freedom96

What we need to remember is that so many teachings of the WTS are so way off base, that we need to question everything they taught.

It is easy to change what we want to, what didn't make sense to us at the time, or now. But, like I mentioned, everything they taught was fact, needs to be questioned.

heathen

Freedom--- I couldn't agree with you more on that one .The WT itself admits some false teachings due to ignorance and you can imagine the treatment of the people that challenged the belief structure and more than likely called apostate but later the WT will turn around and realize they weren't correct and la viola some new light shining out their ass. To them this scenario is called tacking with the wind and of course no one is to again question the new understanding .

Hamas

Dawn,

Believe it or not, I'm not a Muslim.

Although my beliefs seems to coincide with theirs. I understand what you are saying, many seem to lose interest with Christianity after a bad experience with it ; such as the Watchtower. I guess that is what happened to me.

Besides, there is too much hypocrisy in Christianity. Every christian demonination going seems to think it has the truth.

Yet, as I stated, I think Islam is more plausable.

Ravyn

this is my personal belief. I do not claim anyone elses, nor do I intend to convert anyone to mine.

I believe the people who became the Jews recorded their ideas of God in what we have come to know as Genesis. The first chapter speaks of Elohim, which is plural. The second chapter speaks of YHWH, which is also plural--BUT-is one family unit of 'gods', separate from, but a part of, Elohim(read the first two chapters of Genesis in a good comparative Bible that gives the Hebrew and Aramaic references and you will see the two accounts of creation are very different and contradictory IF you understand them to be the SAME creation--however if you see them as two different examples of creation they do not conflict. Elohim created the Universe and other humans, YHWH created the Garden and Adam and Eve--and Lilith, but that is a different story.) Yod-He-Vau-He is Father/Mother/Son/Daughter(or Bride) and denotes ONE family unit 'GOD'. Nothing wrong with this---the Jews were very family/tribe oriented, as all humans. It was only with the rise of warrior/patriarchal society that the Matronit(or Mother/Daughter) got lost in the shuffle. But it is still not difficult to find the Jehovah/Shekinah pair right up thru Solomons Temple in secular historical documents. I see the Old Testament-shift to-New Testament as the natural prgression from Father/Mother to Son/Daughter(Bride). So---basically the YHWH of the Jews and into the the God of the Christians is not a Trinity but a Quaternity. Even if you believe in the Trinity, there is still the Bride of Christ to consider. Holy Spirit may be called 'male' but it has all the qualities of a Mother, and the words used for it in the OT are feminine.

Many other religions have trinities too. Usually they consist of two sets of trinities, one male and one female, or just a female trinity with one male god who services all and manages to get himself sacrificed(and usually chopped up into pieces).

The oldest concept of 'God' is that it is female who gives birth to a son without the help of another male. Then when the Son grows into maturity, he then becomes consort to the Mother who is now represented by a Daughter, or has changed her aspect to 'Maiden' again so the cycle can be perpetuated. The Son becomes the Father and then conveniently dies, while the Maiden/Mother/Crone goes on some dark inner journey(winter-time) to get him back as a newborn Son(Winter Solstice). Sometimes it is the Son/Father who goes on the quest. But it varies little among the ancient mythos.

Personally, YHWH is not my particular name for my 'god'. I am not Jewish. But I do not think YHWH is necessarily ONLY a Jewish god either. I think it represents the common idea of god. I also do not believe YHWH is the ULTIMATE DIVINITY. That would have been Elohim in the Jewish mythos. So I can be a 'trinitarian' and a 'unitarian' at the same time. And I can go to a Christian service and not feel out of place. I can profess the 'Apostle's Creed' and not feel like I am a traitor to it. I just believe BEYOND it. And I equally respect the beliefs of my own particular heritage. I don't see them as conflicting because I understand where they all come from.

Ravyn

heathen

Ravyn-- Deuteronomy 6:4 . I think this one here refutes any idea that the ancient isrealites had a trinity of any kind.

DJ

Heathen, For starters...I am female. I do not have a different idea of what the CONCEPT of the trinity is. You are still mistaken. Even the Catholics teach that there are 3 personalities in God and while they are separate they also are one. You need to get your facts straight. I suppose that your family doesn't shun you because you do not oppose them, am I right? I will come back to post for you a link that might help you dispell some of the wt false logic in the bible. You need to check it out it does coincide with all that I have learned when I sought after an understanding of the bible from the holyspirit who teaches all things....not some men from Brooklyn

DJ

Heathen,

Here ya go. Do yourself a favor and take the time to look these up and think about them. The NT classic verses that the jw's stumble over ie: The Father is greater than I....etc. are ALL understandable when the trinity concept is applied. Jesus emptied Himself, willingly. Subjection does not mean not equal. I am in subjection to my husband, yet it is a willing subjection to him and I am equal to him as a human....(in nature) but I am in willing subjection to him in rank. He loves me and never abuses this headship. The Father and the Son give each other glory. They are separate persons, yet one. Hope this helps in the deprogramming......love, dj

A Common Mistake

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