A Common Mistake (page 5)

DJ

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Athanasian Creed (fifth century)

This creed is attributed to Athanasius, the fourth century bishop of Alexandria who was the strongest defender of the doctrines of the Trinity and the divinity of Christ. It defines the doctrines of the Trinity and the nature of Christ in very concise language.

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We worship one God in trinity, and trinity in unity, neither confounding the persons nor dividing the substance. For the person of the Father is one; of the Son, another; of the Holy Spirit, another. But the divinity of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit is one, the glory equal, the majesty equal. Such as is the Father, such also is the Son, and such the Holy Spirit.

The Father is uncreated, the Son is uncreated, the Holy Spirit is uncreated. The Father is infinite, the Son is infinite, the Holy Spirit is infinite. The Father is eternal, the Son is eternal, the Holy Spirit is eternal. And yet there are not three eternal Beings, but one eternal Being. So also there are not three uncreated Beings, nor three infinite Beings, but one uncreated and one infinite Being.

In like manner, the Father is omnipotent, the Son is omnipotent, and the Holy Spirit is omnipotent. And yet there are not three omnipotent Beings, but one omnipotent Being. Thus the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God. And yet there are not three Gods, but one God only. The Father is Lord, the Son is Lord, and the Holy Spirit is Lord. And yet there are not three Lords, but one Lord only.

For as we are compelled by Christian truth to confess each person distinctively to be both God and Lord, we are prohibited by the Catholic religion to say that there are three Gods or Lords. The Father is made by none, nor created, nor begotten. The Son is from the Father alone, not made, not created, but begotten. The Holy Spirit is not created by the Father and the Son, nor begotten, but proceeds. Therefore, there is one Father, not three Fathers; one Son, not three Sons; one Holy Spirit, not three Holy Spirits.

And in this Trinity there is nothing prior or posterior, nothing greater or less, but all three persons are coeternal and coequal to themselves. So that through all, as was said above, both unity in trinity and trinity in unity is to be adored. Whoever would be saved, let him thus think concerning the Trinity.

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gumby

The Holy Trinity: When a sinner had "blasphemed the holy name of god", or when he had perhaps told some truth about the local priest, it was customary to apply the holy trinity. The Iron mask was heated in an open fire until red hot, then put upon his head. The scourge, also red hot, was then applied to his back. After the mask had cooled, it was removed from the sinner, taking skin (and usually eyeballs) with it. The prisoner's mouth was then opened and red hot pincers were used to remove the prisoner's tongue.
It is interesting to note that the Holy Trinity was designed not to cause death, so that the maimed, blinded and mute prisoner could live out his days as a burden to his family and as a testimony to what happens when one lets his tongue wag too freely.

Ahhhhh! How precious.

Gumby

DJ

Gumby,

You are always a poster on the Christian topics threads, makes one wonder. Of you truly given up on Christianity, it should follow that you would no longer be interested in it. I am on this site to help others who have been thru the jw nonsense. So, like it or not we have something in common...a jw past. You are not going to be successful in trying to convince me that the trinity concept does not align perfectly with the bible teachings. I have spent many years on it. So, give it a rest and try to spend your time with something constructive. dj

gumby

I am on this site to help others who have been thru the jw nonsense.

I guess I've never done that.....I just like to bash christians.

You don't even know me DJ. I have spent some time here helping the dubs leave. I started out on this site as a defender for christianity and did so for some time. After a period of time I had my doubts about it from a long study on the subject and spent much time on those particular topics on this board.

I evolve like everyone else here and when I find in my life that much of what I once believed in has MUCH room for questioning......I have the zeal for it like I did on learning what I did about the dubs. I feel when I post what I currently post is at least worth considering if much of what is said is fact.

I felt like I was tricked twice and that kinda pisses a guy off and so you want to tell others so they can see both sides and then decide for themselves.

Truth.........has nothing to hide from.

Gumby

....btw.....I do post on subjects other than christian topics

KGB

Hey it does not matter if Jesus is God or God is Jesus or if there are 3 or if there are 10. The p[oint is that there are those who have faith and that faith is based on God, Jesus, and Gods holy spirit. Those who believe gain an everlasting gift, those who don`t ? well I would not want to be in there shoes. And those who once did believe and now don`t ? Man those are shoes I want to stay completely away from because those are the true appostates of the bible. And for me whats really sad ? is I was baptized right along side of someone here who now does not believe who is now a true apostate. That scares the heck out of me more than any belief in the trinity...............I hope you catch my drift. whom I am talking about...

DJ

Hi kgb!!! Nice to run into you in these here parts! All due respect my brother, I do think it is important. We were taught that Jesus was an angel and the bible makes it clear that He isn't. We were taught so much falsehood.....There is a sharp distinction between truth and error. The wt pays lip service to Jesus. They deny his deity and his creatorship. The truth is plain to read. The lie is stuck in people's minds and whom.......if not us, who He has been gracious to is going to help them to learn to read and actually see what the bible says about Christ? They are not praying, not seeking, living in fear of the "what if the wt is right" syndrome. Been there, done that and free of all of it. I haven't one ounce of doubt left in me and the least I can do for my fellow sufferers is to help them to know that they can be sure 100% sure, that the wt is wrong. Yes, dead wrong. I don't expect to help mr. gumby.....because he doesn't even seek anymore but the Good Lord may use me to reach someone else who is seeking. Take care my brother.dj

Kingpawn

DJ,

Didn't the Society use the example of Scripture saying King Solomon built the Temple as an example of how while he didn't literally, he was in charge of the workers who did, and apply this same reasoning to the Trinity? IOW, "God" is a title, maybe a committee would be the best way to explain the concept, of three making up one entity? The Father directed, the Son carried out? Like a police department is many individuals but one organization? Is this a valid way, iyo, to picture the Trinity?

Otherwise I'd have to ask, if they're all believed to be One, how this squares with Matt. 24:36? Can they be equal and yet some know things others don't?

gumby

I haven't one ounce of doubt left in me and the least I can do for my fellow sufferers is to help them to know that they can be sure 100% sure, that the wt is wrong. . I don't expect to help mr. gumby.....because he doesn't even seek anymore.

So you want to help people see the error of the watchtower but you think I am out of line for helping people to see the bible was not Gods work...........that seems fair.

As for me seeking.......I figure after 3 years with a bible study group and 3 years going to chuirch regularly after that.........that I would be" in christ" by that time. Those in christ are ALWAYS with christ and NOBODY can snatch them from his hand according to his own words. Well............somebody SNATCHED me didn't they?

DJ,

I apprerciate your concern for other sand thats very commendable. For us who do not believe the word anymore......it is not out of selfishness or greed. It is from an HONEST study of the bible and it's formation. Then..........a person has to decide what is what. That part was NOT easy for me.

Gumby

KGB

DJ

I was not denying the fact that you were right or not I was upset over the fact that someone who I thought dearly of as a friend was now an unbeliever. Someone who would come to my house and study Gods word and proclaim his word now denies it. My comment was in reference to that persons post and not to yours so I am sorry for the mix up....

Ravyn

Kingpawn:

yes there can be equality without total 'sameness'. people get weird ideas about equality.

People can be treated with equality and they are not clones of each other! Men and women can be equal but not the same!

I am not defending the Trinity here--just answering the question you posed.

I don't know where people get the idea that 'equal' means 'the same'. so therefore someone can be equal and not know exactly the same things!

Ravyn

A Common Mistake

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