A Common Mistake (page 4)

DJ

ooooops here it is:

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/48178/680518/post.ashx#680518

DJ-- ( here I go again) I am not a dub nor is anyone in my family and there is no need to shun anyone and I don't follow any religion. I have heard as I previously mentioned, the trinity doctrine presented by the catholics and baptists . What you are saying isn't the same thing. I don't mind discussing theology with people . You are free to believe anything you want , makes no difference to me .The trinity doctrine does say that Jesus is in fact the only God of the bible.

DJ

Heathen
How unusual to meet you here if you were never a jw and have no family in it. Anyway, the "Athanasian Creed" is what you are referring to, right? This creed speaks of One God in three personal distinctions. Yes, Jesus is God and the Father is God and the Holy Spirit is God. The trinitarian doctrine holds that God is a single infinite being, transcending the bounds of space and time, having no body either material or spiritual (except the body that the Son assumed when He came in the flesh). The distinction between the Father and Son is made by using the term 'persons'. This is one God. Jesus was on the earth the Son of God and the Son of Man because He was man borne through Mary and God, as His Son. The trinitarian faith does not allow for dividing the substance of God nor confounding the persons.

You didn't read the link I supplied to you and I regret that because you are missing the fact that the YWWH in Isaiah 44 declares that HE ALONE created the heavens and the earth and also in Job, he says that God did it by himself. How then can you justify the declaration in Hebrews 1:10 that the Father claims that the Son created the heavens and earth? It is a quote from Psalms. How do you justify that there are TWO Firsts and Lasts? In Rev. Jesus is clearly the First and Last and yet in Isaiah YWYH is the First and Last. The A to Z. Alpha and Omega. The heavens and earth were made by the WORD. "Let there be Light". If you are not a JW then what bible do you use? John 1:1 the Word was GOD and he was also with God....that is what the trinity is. Check out the link if you get a chance, ok? dj

ps What bible do you use?

Francois

It was never meant to be understood that Jesus was the second person of the Trinity. The Eternal Son is someone else. Jesus is the god of our universe. There are others.

francois

DJ

Hamas,

If Jesus was only a prophet then he must only be a man like Moses, right? How do you reconcile the fact that the bible has declared Jesus as the creator of the heavens and the earth in Hebrews 1:10. Do you discount what is said of the Son in the bible or do you think that a man created all things? Thanks....dj

Ravyn,

That stuff is out there to me

Francois,

Interesting. I don't know any other Gods. The creator is the only one that I believe in.

StarScream,

Good catch and thanks. I can't edit for some reason.

heathen

I have the WT bible from when I was a study . COL. 1;15 states that jesus was the first born of all creation and by means of him all other things were created . What does your bible say on this ? I think that is what it was called" Athanasian creed". couldn't think of it but am aware that there were churches that had these kind of commitees that would determine the official church dogma on issues . My point was that what you are saying is not the official definition according to early churches and churches who still cling to that dogma about the trinity .I think the Wt says that the belief in a trinity was first started by the pagans in babylon . The egyptians also had a trinity which is why I think the scripture at deuteronomy 6:4 was important in destinquishing the hebrew God from the other Gods that were commonly worshipped.

DJ

Heathen,

If you notice in Collosians the word [other] is stuck in there. That makes it say something different. This word [other] was never in the Greek scriptures. The wt added it in order to make it say what they teach. It is a lie. Check your Kingdom Interlinear if you want to.... At Colossians 1:15 "He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For by Him all things were created that are in heaven or on earth...."

Keep in mind when you read "firstborn" in the bible it does not necessarily mean the first one born. If you read Psalm 89:27 you see that it is speaking about King David, who was the youngest son of Jesse. He was last born. Yet, notice what God says about him: "Also, I myself shall place him as firstborn...." It is clear there that God isn't speaking about changing literal birth order, but He is speaking about an elevation in rank, above the others to the preeminent position. The same wording is used for Ephraim.

The verse where Job claims that God has stretched out the earth alone or by himself is Job 9:8 Also Isaiah 44:24 alone. Yet.......Collosians and Hebrews and John place Jesus as the creator.. In John 1 it says that nothing came into existence without Him. How could he be created if NOTHING came into existence without him? NOTHING>>> These verses all fit together with Hebrews 1:1-10. If we ignore them them and make Jesus the master worker or helper in the creation then we call God a liar because He said that he was alone.

wonderer2003

Jesus was an angel who became a man (Watchtower, 5/15/63, p 307). He was just a man, however -- not God in the flesh

Hi can i ask dj if this is still the way of there teachings.

Jesus Christ was more than a "good man." He is God.
Philippians 2:6
Hebrews 1:8

there are many references like this in the bible ,if you would like more I will suggest them.

Im sorry i dont have a religion but try to look into some maybe I am looking for the Truth.

gumby

The concept of the trinity DOES NOT teach that the Father is the Son.

No....it's much more sensible than that. It teaches the son is the father instead........now THAT makes more sense doesn't it? And don't say it doesn't. Colosians plainly says Jesus made everything, and so does John 1. Seems to me that makes him the father. Also.....you fundies believe Isaiah spoke of Jesus being called "mighty father" don't you? So is Jesus the father or not? If he's the father.........then what is his dad? ( another good reason to see the bible for what it is........a book of man.

Gumby

DJ

Hi wonderer, welcome!

Yes, that is still what the wt teaches. They have lowered Christ to being Michael the Archangel. Hebrews clearly states that Jesus is not an angel of any sort. He is the creator. Thanks for your suggestions and you are of course welcome to jump in at any time.

Gumby,

Lol....no

Heathen,

I'll post the creed so you can read it, tell me if it interferes with the bible or..... if it puts into words what it really does teach.

A Common Mistake

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