Texas Windshield Murder Trial Begins

by TresHappy 186 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

Mecurious?

This lady does not fit in the same category as child molestors, serial killers/rapist etc. I agree that what she did was wrong and she got what she deserved. But all the name calling and such imo is rather childish. Again, I have seen more hate on this board than I ever seen at the kingdom hall's and people on this board have the nerve to talk about lack of love from the Jw's. I think realist has a good point about people letting go of anger and hate. I agree with him in that sense only. Otherwise I'm through with this nonsense.......
Merc'
wednesday

a) evil does not exist. hurtful actions are caused by malfunctioning brains and not an evil spirit. actions are caused by our neuronal networks.

I disagree. I do not believe it is evil spirits, but i definitely believe there are evil people. Actually, a number of psychologists and psyhiatrists do also. also, remember what is considered a mental illness changes with the times.I would not be quick to consider a person evil, it would be after all other things are ruled out. I think the goal shuold be to save as many people as possible, so I am not advocating a return to the wild west. I'm saying that it can be considered as a diagnosis.I do not see why the devil has to brought into discussion. We are not saying they are possessed-just evil. I think if u have ever looked into the eyes of pure evil, u would recognize it.
b) a society based not on hate and revenge but on logical decisions is on average and on the long run more peaceful. for instance europe vs. the US criminal statistics proves this point in my opinion. especially child molestation, rape, murder are not prevented by hard punishments. (as experts and statistics show
our society is very caring. that is why we have so many problems, the crinimals have too many rights.I do not have the figures before me , but the death penalty is only allowed in certain states. If we were uniform with it, in all states, and the criminal knew it was a sure thing, it would deter crime. it is b/c of liberal bleeding hearts, who care more about the crimal than the victim , that we are in the state we are in. We have to be tougher with our laws. If criminals knew that, it would deter them..That is why your comments are viewed as offensive.
All of us know that most child molesters are not able to be helped. They repeat offend. The goal should be to decide, who is safe to be just put in prision and who needs to be just "put down". U can castrate them u can do all sorts of thngs, but a child molester can harm by any number means. he does not need a penis.There is just no safe way to be sure he will not repeat offend.(i am using "he" but well know some are female).
c) i do not advocate to release dangerous individuals which pose a threat to society. their sentence should however be based on logic and not on hate and revenge
. agree. Both shelia and i are mother/grandmothers. It hits very close to home. that is why people get a trial by their peers, and even a right to appeal. I admit i feel very emotional about this. I am a non violent person, but i know i could take the life of somoene who harmed my child/grandchildren.
I do not believe the death penalty is based on revenge. 12 people have to decide on it.
Take for instance, jasper TX, where 3 white men dragged a black man to death. I believe 2 got the death penalty and 1 got life. I think the jurors were fair. the men were criminals, and were no better than animals. They got a trial .They were not strung up by a mob.Mallad came very close to the same thing. The only dfference-and it is a big one-she did not got out and look for Mr Biggs to kill him. It was an accident. But what she did later is what separates us from animals. I do not think she is mentally ill or anything She is a drug addict and evil. Clearly she belongs in jail for a very long time.Now if it had all been about revenge, she would have gotten death. But 12 jurors listed to the facts, and gave her justice.
It has been my exp that mentally ill people are mor apt to harm themselves than others. The ones that do get a lot of press. Most are like our poor mr. Biggs, victims of crimes.
Does it sound like revenge that the death penalty is envoked? Do u see any situation as deserving of death?
I am not mad at u, i do not like your views, but many here in usa feel the same. Threre is much controversy about the death penalty law, which is what we are debating.I don't mind listening to your views, but apparently we just don't agree. Who will win? No one here, but many of us here in usa fear the liberal viewpoint is winning. That is the reason for the rising crime rate , as u pointed out.
SheilaM

ignorant ideas u are talking about

I re-read all of my posts WHERE did I say this?????? I don't use u I use the term you. Unless I am too tired and blind I just don't see where this was my quote.
Mecurious: LOL I can't help it if Realist has to become accusatory and rude. He accused me of editing my post, I don't do that I edit if I catch a spelling error.
wednesday

ignorant ideas u are talking about

oh Shelia that would be me he is quoting. perhaps i shoud not have used that word, but it got under my skin.
weds
SheilaM

tried to have a civilized discussion but was constantly attacked personally (not just by here). she did not even apologize for her unwarranted and unjustified outburst.
Wed: Can you see why I would think that, I was wondering LOL Thanks for explaining what he meant.
Realist

mecurious,
thank you for your support!
Again, I have seen more hate on this board than I ever seen at the kingdom hall's and people on this board have the nerve to talk about lack of love from the Jw's.
sadly this is true. however since JWs are not better people than the average population one can conclude that their lovy dovy attidue is only a display not based in their hearts.
Sheila,
sorry i was not aware that editing a post is viewed as something utterly dispicable (i edit my post sometimes and don't see a problem with it). anyway to go off like this because i say you edited your post is kind of weird.
so just to resolve this issue once and forever i am gonna explain what apparently happened in a chronological order (times as displyed on my computer).
you were posting an add-on (28-Jun-03 20:18) to your original message (28-Jun-03 20:11) while i was responding to it. so i did not see your add-on and thus did not respond to it. (a mistake that will cause a nuclear explosion later on )
than came your 2 sentence reply (28-Jun-03 20:31, where you apparently indeed lost part of it due to server troubles...so it came across rather ignorant).
i replied somewhat annoyed at 28-Jun-03 20:57. than you explained the server eat your post at 29-Jun-03 00:39. you also gave a nutshell summary of what you said in that post and stated you think its unnecessary to continue the discussion.
i replied to every line in your 00:39 post at 29-Jun-03 01:43. (yes i go to bed rather late )
than comes your reply at 30-Jun-03 03:47 where you just explained what you mean by the term humanist. (you did not adress any of the other points except for stating what scientists do). further you stated that i did not address your point about evil. (which i had missed due to cross posting at 28-Jun-03 20:21). Jun 28, 2003
i of course assume you talk about your last post (00:39) so i go back to the 29-Jun-03 00:39 post and confirm that i have replied to every line. i go up further and notice your 28-Jun-03 20:18 post. i did not look at the exact times so i assumed you simply had added something to your original 28-Jun-03 20:11 post later on (there is an edited at 28-Jun-03 20:28 Jun 28, 2003 remark at the end). therefore i stated i missed the part about evil because you edited your post (again i did not mean any offense in this statement. it was just meant as explanaition).
next thing i now there is a small mushroom cloud hanging over missouri
so i hope we can end this stupid quarrel here and now.
Realist

wednesday,
I disagree. I do not believe it is evil spirits, but i definitely believe there are evil people. Actually, a number of psychologists and psyhiatrists do also. also, remember what is considered a mental illness changes with the times.I would not be quick to consider a person evil, it would be after all other things are ruled out. I think the goal shuold be to save as many people as possible, so I am not advocating a return to the wild west. I'm saying that it can be considered as a diagnosis.I do not see why the devil has to brought into discussion. We are not saying they are possessed-just evil. I think if u have ever looked into the eyes of pure evil, u would recognize it.
i agree partially. it is of course true that some people do intentionally harmful things to others. and one can name such individuals evil. but what is the cause for their actions? it is an abnormally functioning brain. for instance child molesters can certainly be viewed as evil but that does not mean they have a choice of saying "i don't want to molest children anymore". they have the urge to do it which is caused by their neuronal networks. their brain although not detectable by PET scans etc. is functioning in an abnormal way. thus although it is understandable to hate a child molester it is still an unrational response. the offender offends because of his neuronal settings not because of a free will choice to do evil things.
our society is very caring. that is why we have so many problems, the crinimals have too many rights.I do not have the figures before me , but the death penalty is only allowed in certain states. If we were uniform with it, in all states, and the criminal knew it was a sure thing, it would deter crime. it is b/c of liberal bleeding hearts, who care more about the crimal than the victim , that we are in the state we are in. We have to be tougher with our laws. If criminals knew that, it would deter them..That is why your comments are viewed as offensive.
sorry i certainly don't mean an offense in this but the US society is compared to europe and other western states not very caring. in terms of social justice, punishment etc. (sorry if you were referring to somehting else).
interestingly there is a lower murder rate in the US states without capital punishment compared to the ones that have it (with the exception of washingot DC). there is also a lower crime rate in europe which has very liberal laws (i don'T know about canada and australia). if punishment would indeed work as a deterrant to the extand you assume than these statistics should be reversed.
again...my cause is not to give the "poor" criminals more rights. my point is that a more civilized society which bases its acts on logic and scientific approaches causes less victims than a society that is based on the idea of revenge and let loose hate.
All of us know that most child molesters are not able to be helped. They repeat offend. The goal should be to decide, who is safe to be just put in prision and who needs to be just "put down". U can castrate them u can do all sorts of thngs, but a child molester can harm by any number means. he does not need a penis.There is just no safe way to be sure he will not repeat offend.(i am using "he" but well know some are female).
i agree. chemical or better hormonal treatments might help (again prove that these are ill individuals) but the patients usually do not keep taking the pills anyway. so indeed such individuals should perhaps be kept in prision indefinately (unless an effective treatment is found). however to kill them would put us just at a level with them. inhumane actions should not be retaliated by inhumane measures.
Both shelia and i are mother/grandmothers. It hits very close to home. that is why people get a trial by their peers, and even a right to appeal. I admit i feel very emotional about this. I am a non violent person, but i know i could take the life of somoene who harmed my child/grandchildren.
i can see you two are emotional about this . and i can assure you that if someone would kill a family member of mine i too would try to kill the offender. BUT the question is how can we reduce crime rate and as i see it the answer does not lie in a philosophy based on the old testament but in modern approaches. that the vicitm wants revenge is understandable but the society and legislation has to make its decisions based on logic. (the horrendous judgments in US courts (not just in violent offend cases but in general) give the impression that logic and scientific viewpoints are disregarded in many cases).
Realist

Take for instance, jasper TX, where 3 white men dragged a black man to death. I believe 2 got the death penalty and 1 got life. I think the jurors were fair. the men were criminals, and were no better than animals. They got a trial .They were not strung up by a mob.Mallad came very close to the same thing. The only dfference-and it is a big one-she did not got out and look for Mr Biggs to kill him. It was an accident. But what she did later is what separates us from animals. I do not think she is mentally ill or anything She is a drug addict and evil. Clearly she belongs in jail for a very long time.Now if it had all been about revenge, she would have gotten death. But 12 jurors listed to the facts, and gave her justice.

now before i get another punch let me say again that i did not watch the trial on TV. but just from what i have heard/read so far the woman let the man die because of fear not because of hate. to put it simply...after she hit the man with her car the neurons in her brain that cause fear (in this case of punishment) were overriding any other signal in her brain. that she was on drugs most likely didn'T help the situation.
in many cases when there is an accident people do not help because they are afraid of doing somehtign wrong and getting sued later. this is a very similar situation.
i would assume that mallard normally would help a person in trouble if she has the possibility to do it. in this case however she viewed self preservation (that is not letting her live get ruined by this) as the more important thing. certainly not something i condone! but a somewhat logical explanaiton for what happened.
if she has absolutely no respect for human life and viewed the man dying just like others watch a mosquito getting smashed than she has very serious mental issues and should be kept in detention indefinitely.
as for the 3 man that killed jasper TX...they too have severe mental problems. in this case probably not because of any genetic defects but because of getting trained to hate other ethnic groups. whether they should be released back into society depends on whether they can be "deprogrammed".
It has been my exp that mentally ill people are mor apt to harm themselves than others. The ones that do get a lot of press. Most are like our poor mr. Biggs, victims of crimes.
mental diseases in deed often cause the individual to commit suicide or to harm himself.
Does it sound like revenge that the death penalty is envoked? Do u see any situation as deserving of death?
to me it does and i think in the public debate revenge is an important factor (unfortunately).
i don't see any situation deserving of death. (at least not based on hate and revenge)
I am not mad at u, i do not like your views, but many here in usa feel the same. Threre is much controversy about the death penalty law, which is what we are debating.I don't mind listening to your views, but apparently we just don't agree. Who will win? No one here, but many of us here in usa fear the liberal viewpoint is winning. That is the reason for the rising crime rate , as u pointed out.
i am not mad at you either.
if it would be provable to you that a more liberal approach would actually lower crime rates instead of increasing them would you accept more liberal laws? i think many people would still reject it because they want to preserve the an eye for an eye mentality.
i think the raising crime rate is increasing for many reasons but most likely not because of putting an end to capital punishment. europe has far more liberal laws and a far lower crime rate.
Thunder Rider

evil does not exist. hurtful actions are caused by malfunctioning brains and not an evil spirit. actions are caused by our neuronal networks.

Realist
If your assumptiom stated above is to be considered factual then I would submit that bueaty does not exist, or color for that matter as they are but the interpretation of electrical impulses, by our brains, from the stimulation of the eye by rays of light.
Music would therefore be nonexistant as well as it is just varying sound wavws impacting the ear drum and again translated by our brain into recognizable and enjoyable stimuli.
Just because a certain something can be reduced to its most basic scientific causal and effectual definition does not make it nonexistant. Nor does it nulify the termanology associated it by society, be they "educated" or "lay".
Why you have chosen to dismiss abhorant behavior using the excuse of misfiring nuerons or some such biological defect, is beyond me and I feel a rather flimsy argument base.
If "evil doers" are that mentaly defective, removal from the gene pool would seem the "logical" course of action, be it through detention or execution.
Myself I would choose the latter and save the taxpayer the cost of attempting to rehabilitate a mentaly defective, violent, consciousless, cold hearted, drug using, drunk driving, self centerd monster.
Thunder
Realist

hello thunder,
If your assumptiom stated above is to be considered factual then I would submit that bueaty does not exist, or color for that matter as they are but the interpretation of electrical impulses, by our brains, from the stimulation of the eye by rays of light.
what shall i say? your assumption is correct our brain is built in a way that allows us to function in this world. the interpretation of our environment is part of it. beauty and the perception of colors (unlike the electromagnetic waves) are not universal attributes.
Music would therefore be nonexistant as well as it is just varying sound wavws impacting the ear drum and again translated by our brain into recognizable and enjoyable stimuli.
the interpretaion of music is a fascinating topic...we should make an extra thread on that one.
Just because a certain something can be reduced to its most basic scientific causal and effectual definition does not make it nonexistant. Nor does it nulify the termanology associated it by society, be they "educated" or "lay".
i agree. however in order to fight a problem one has to understand the cause. to simply say certain individuals are evil does not solve the problem or allow rational, humane decisions.
Why you have chosen to dismiss abhorant behavior using the excuse of misfiring nuerons or some such biological defect, is beyond me and I feel a rather flimsy argument base.
i do not dismiss abhorant behavior. i just question the approaches to solve the problem.
If "evil doers" are that mentaly defective, removal from the gene pool would seem the "logical" course of action, be it through detention or execution.
agreed. but since such individuals are ill they do deserve a humane treatment. killing them should not be an option in a modern society.
Myself I would choose the latter and save the taxpayer the cost of attempting to rehabilitate a mentaly defective, violent, consciousless, cold hearted, drug using, drunk driving, self centerd monster.
executions are extremely expansive. it is cheaper to keep a person in prison for life instead of killing him. secondly what about the many cases where falsly convicted individuals were executed or on death row? the possibility of killing an innocent person should be reason enough to end capital punishment.
also treatment of many deseases is very expansive. i don't see why in the case of offenders treatment should not be considered.

Texas Windshield Murder Trial Begins

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