Hello, dear Teejay... peace to you... and please forgive my delay in responding. I will explain that in a separate thread (if that's okay with you - LOLOLOL!). But for now:
SJ wrote:
I could not find your “defense”, dear Teejay…
TJ wrote:
Any idea why that is, Shelby? Let me give you a hint... According to your Posting History , you rarely post to threads you don't start.
I hadn't thought of it, but that might be true, Teej. I can only think that the reason for that is twofold: (1) sometimes threads get so long and so convoluted that I don't where I or someone else left off - I have confessed to you and everyone else here that I am not the "brightest" crayon in the box. The initial H20 format was easiest for me. Then the last jw.com one. But this new one... well, what would HELP is if folks would change the title line each time they posted. You know, so it's not "Re: Whatever," and then "Re: Re: Whatever." At least, that would help ME.
Second, if I don't respond to a thread it's because either the matter has been sufficiently answered by someone else with faith... or the conversation has taken a turn that would require me to get involved in something I am not free or directed to.
That's it; that's all. I start the threads I do for three (3) reasons: (1) it's a new topic; (2) it's a new view of a topic; or (3) so that the subject doesn't get so lost. However, I wasn't aware that any of these was a "crime."
My question is: Do you even read other threads or just your own?
LOLOLOLOLOL! C'mon, Teejay, even you know that not posting to a thread does not mean one does not read them! And whether I read and/or post depends on (1) the topic/subject; (2) who wrote it; (3) how many other responses there already are, particularly if the issue has been answered; and (4) the "tone" the thread is taking. I must admit that I read more threads that I care to admit and even post in some of the "funny" or "fluff" ones from time to time (I am human, don't 'cha know!). As to posting to them, I have to say that if I am not directed to, or if what I have to say is irrelevant or of no consequence, I usually refrain. Why? Because I have learned my lesson about jumping into threads that have not either been addressed to me, or of a subject known to me or containing comments made by me or attributed to me. It seems to ME that folks get enough of me just from what I DO post and when I go outside of my own little... ummmmm... "space"... all heck breaks loose. And that gets wearisome, from time to time, all that heck breakin' loose.
There are more discussions going on here than just those about god and the bible.
Well, now I AM confused: when I was in the "Friends" section, that's what folks said there. Now, I am in the, what is it, "BIBLE Research and Study Articles," section, and talkin' about the Bible and God. Unless there is ANOTHER section I should be in, can you make up my mind already?
Could it be that it was in one of those other threads where something unkind was said about you and I rose to your defense?
Absolutely! Oh, Teejay... my sincerest apologies if you think I think you a bad guy. Nothing could be further from the truth! That is why I was, well, surprised when you posted what you did. Really! I thought you had gotten over me being crazy a LONG time ago! I mean, way back when (before BigBoi stepped up for me - may JAH bless you to time indefinite, my dear little brother!), you would say some pretty "uncool" stuff. Remember the Emmy Rose fiasco and all that led from that? But it seemed that after that, seemed like you realized I was just "folks". And I AM. I have TOLD you: I know KNOW this stuff! I'm just sharing what I hear... what I am GIVEN to share. And have I told anyone to kill anyone, or join anything, or give their money to anything, or leave anything... or ANYTHING that would cause harm to them or to anyone else? Nope. Have I asked ANYTHING from ANYONE on this board for ANY reason? Nope. All I have said is what I hear... and that you and others can, too... and why it is that you don't. But... YOU ASKED, yes? And I told you the TRUTH... which is why we are where we are now: you cannot "see" why ME... and not YOU. As many others can't either. But that is not ON me! It is between you... and God. Why ask me, then, to give you a reply if you don't want me to tell you the TRUTH? So, okay, then, go to the churches, go to religion... because they'll lie to you if that's what you want and tell you whatever it is you want to hear. But I... can't. Sorry. And it's not because I am so "goody-goody" (not at all!) that I can't lie to you. It's simply because it is not me who is giving you your answer, but God, through Christ... because... you will not come to THAT ONE... and get it straight from HIM! Thus, I am just an instrument used by God's Word to tell you what you want to hear... but will not approach HIM so that you can. The TRUTH. And HE can't lie, therefore, the response I give you cannot be a lie. That's it; that's all.
You may give some thought to venturing out and reading things other than your own thoughts and pet topics -- see what other people are talking about and have an interest in. Maybe not.
If you knew me, you would know that I do just that. But unless I respond to every topic... or unless you're gonna come here and stand behind my back... I don't know how else to prove it to you.
But just remember that, just because you didn't see it doesn't mean it's not here. You can probably relate to that concept.
You are correct, and I can most certainly relate. I made the comment that I did in the hopes that YOU would find it. I would have readily apologized and I think you know that, because I DIDN'T want to think that you thought so ill of me. It hurt, Teejay. Why do you all think it doesn't? I am still flesh... with its blood.
You may have trouble believing this, but it has not been often that people have come along in my life who freely admit to hearing voices, particularly the voice of god. On a regular – almost daily – basis.
I have no trouble believing you. Why would I? I ain't like I have other folks coming out of the woodwork professing it, even if they do hear. But I have to clear this up, Teejay - I have heard the voice of my Father only four times, the latest of which I will tell about in another thread. It is the voice of my Lord, His Son, that I hear... daily. Hourly. Regularly. Sometimes, minute by minute. For spirit beings... do not sleep. They are not bound by flesh which NEEDS to sleep, so they don't have the NEED.
Of all my Christian (non-JW) relatives, friends, classmates, workmates, and online associates, I must say that you alone, Shelby, hold that singular distinction. No one else I've ever met anywhere heard god's voice in the way that you do. Believe that or not.
I believe you, trust me. What, you think they welcomed me with open arms when it started and I went to them about it? I must admit, Carey Barber was a little shaken up by it, so that once he was told he ceased his maligning (he did say, however, that I was "talking to demons"). Poor man. Truly. He knew... and he knew that I knew he knew.
It may be equally stunning to you to consider that a person in my position, with my history, with a complete dearth of experience in dealing with people so disposed to hearing god's voice, might very well have two – and only two – options before them when considering what to do about you...
First, I need to understand what you mean by "disposed" to hearing god's voice. Because the word means you are USED to it, which you deny by your previous statement that I alone hold such distinction. (At least, as far as you know!) So, I am going to assume that you mean NOT used to it, yes? And in that case, I completely understand your skepticism.
The first option I have is to give the person – in this case you – the benefit of the doubt and believe that you do hear god's voice, as wild as the thought might be. To give oneself over to the thought that, "Yes. God, god's son, a superhuman/divine being (or however you wish to identify the origin of the voice) actually communicates with Shelby... and on a fairly regular basis."
Well, if the tables were turned and it was you making the claim, as long as that claim was in line with what my Lord himself taught and said, I'd have no problem with it: to each his own - to his own master he will stand or fall. And I would probably say, "Okay, Teej, show me what to do so I can do it, too, if God/Christ wants me to/will let me." I mean, what have I got to lose? I given religion so many years - what a crock! What's a couple of minutes/hours to try it this way?
The second option I have is to simply do what 99.8% of most people will do: simply think you’re a little off.
True, but I'm a-thinkin'... that thinking... and saying what one thinks... may not be quite the same thing. They certainly may not result in the same thing, as one has the potential to be manifested as an unkindness.
In that case, as you have seen and will continue to see, what I will do is what most people in this category won't do: not reject you but talk to you like a human being, quirks and all.
THANK YOU, Teejay! I ask nothing more!
While it may not be your intent, Shelby, you are excruciatingly condescending.
Okay, well, now you're most probably gonna think me even more so, because of what I am about to say: you do not know if I am condescending, because you are taking what is TYPED here... and applying a "tone" to it that I do not intend at ALL. But that is the peril of the Internet, and many have said so: it is not always easy to determine someone's INTENT. For example, I use caps sometimes (many times - LOL!) and there are some who see it as shouting. However, I have explained that I am NOT shouting - I don't shout. I haven't raised my voice in... well, let's see, I'm 43 now... so, let's say, maybe 4th grade on the playground saying something like, "Here! Here! Throw the ball here!!" And even then... I was totally embarrassed.
I grew up in a house where everyone shouted... except my younger brother and me. In fact, I didn't even allow my children toys that made noise. And they... are even quieter than I am. VERY soft-spoken. But... the PERCEPTION may be that I am shouting. However, the TRUTH... is that I am just trying to emphasize certain words so that the reader will have the right COMPREHENSION of what I am trying to say. And... I am lazy. Too lazy to scroll up and click the italics icon. I just type too fast (I learned on a manual typewriter, WAY back when, before they had IBM Selectrics - the one before the Selectric II, for those of you who know - LOLOLOL!). So, I get a rhythm going, and it's just easier... for ME. That's it; that's all.
But... if you KNEW me, Teejay... ME... Shelby... you would know the true tone when you read any of my posts. And you would have no doubt as to my motive, my intention, my purpose. Some have taken the time to do that. Farkle, BigBoi, Shari, Uncle Bruce, and many others... have actually called and spoken to me on the phone. Others have met me in person. It took me all the courage I could muster, but I even posted my photo when my Lord directed me to (I HATED that one! Didn't want to do it at all! I had only taken them because I had to have major surgery and realized my children had no recent - since, what 1989? - photos of me and if anything happened, I wanted them to have them).
I speak to you with TRUTH, Teejay... because truth is what my Lord gives me... and it is what I would want YOU to "do unto" me. Tell me the truth. I have HAD it with the lies, truly.
That's why (above) I requoted most of your previous post to me... in hopes that you might see how you regularly speak to me: telling me I'm blind; that I don't want to know god (and that's why I can't hear voices like you), that I'm proud; that I'm angry with God, that god speaks to me but I refuse to hear; that I don't hear because I don't ask; that I fail to hear; that, unlike you, I am limited; that the reason I don't hear the same voices as you is because I don't have an open mind...
Okay, then, Teejay, tell me: what do you WANT me to tell you? What do you WANT me to say? What do you WANT to hear? Because I have told you the TRUTH. And trust me, it was told to ME first, too! Did I reject it? My Lord knows... I WANTED to! Shoot, it HURT! But... it was the TRUTH! And I had asked... for the TRUTH. So, now, like Paul said, "because I tell you the truth, I am no longer your friend?" The WTBTS lied to you, and told you it was the truth... and it sounded GOOD, didn't it? Were they your friends? Truly? Please... don't ask me to lie to you... and don't ask me to tell you things you are not ready to hear.
that the reason I find much of your abusive language ABUSIVE is because you have been the vehicle by which The Voice "disciplines" me; that I ... I am self-righteous... () and on and on and on.
Omigosh! This is SO... wait! Let me explain, please. If you will, turn in your Bible to Hebrews 12:4, and starting there, I want to help YOU see one of the first TRUTHS that my Lord explained to me. Ready? Okay:
12:4 "In carrying on YOUR contest against sin, YOU have never yet resisted as far as blood."
Okay, first forget all that Bible scholar nonsense about the all capped "YOU" and "YOUR" being plural. It is not. It is emphasis, and so where you see other caps, they are MY emphasis. And this first verse is saying that YOU haven't given YOUR life, nor have you been pushed to the point of doing so.
12:5 "... but YOU have ENTIRELY FORGOTTEN the exhortation which addressed YOU... AS SONS..."
So, there is an exhortation which addressed us as SONS, which exhortation IS:
"My SON, do not BELITTLE the discipline from JAH... neither give OUT... when you are CORRECTED by Him."
So, okay, so what? The next verse answers:
"Because whom JAH... LOVES... He... DISCIPLINES; in FACT, He SCOURGES... EVERYONE whom He receives as a Son."
You think I wasn't scourged FIRST? If so, you are wrong. Dead wrong. I had to see ME... not as I saw me, but as I truly AM... before I could even be sent. How do you think it is that I can ask for mercy on behalf of those who persecute me? Because I know what I was, too! I have BEEN where you are, Teejay, trust me. Where ALL of you are. And when my Lord spoke the truth to me, ABOUT me... what could I say, he was wrong? Sure, I WANTED to say that... but it would not have been the TRUTH! The TRUTH was... he was right. But, he offered to help me overcome it, but ONLY if I listened to him. I had to make that commitment, and I did. And my "listening" was not just about things in the heavens: many times... many, many, many times... it was about ME. And initially, I was shocked: "No, not me! I am not like that!" But I was. And he has not led me wrong once, not once, with regard to myself. It is by means of this "light" then, that he shed on ME... that I was able to SEE me... and correct it. But... I had to trust him and listen to him.
As a result, as he would show me where I was "naked"... would put on "clothes"... LOVE... and thus be ready for what was next. And each time I obeyed and clothed myself more... the more I was shown... and heard.
That... is how it works, dear Teejay. When the Light comes upon you, the illumination occurs like this:
1. What is in front of you is illuminated first, so that you will SEE that you are on the wrong path, road, trail and will KNOW that you must TURN AROUND.
2. As the path gets BRIGHTER (because you are getting closer to the True Light, Christ, and thus to GOD, the Father of celestial lights), you see YOURSELF: naked and blind... now knowing that you previously saw NOTHING, although you THOUGHT you did... AND thought you were "dressed" (remember the joke about the 4-5 blind folks and the elephant they described?). That is why he says, "You THINK you are rich, but you do KNOW that you are naked and blind..."
3. Then you see what is AROUND you... the "dangers": pits, potholes, rocks and boulders in your path, forks in the road, offshoots, etc. But, because you are so far from the Light... these are not always immediately clear. That is why you have to listen to his VOICE: it will guide you TO him! (i.e., "step here, child"; "no, do not go that way,"; "turn, here", etc.) We are, all of us, blind, Teejay. It is only by the Light of God that we can see what we cannot with our eyes of flesh. There is a whole "world" out there... one of spirit so that we cannot see it... and we are in it.
4. Then you see others. Your newly established light reflects off you so as to illuminate some of what is around you... as well as WHO is around you. The flesh can no longer hide anything, for such light permeates flesh. So, you also will see who is ALSO in the Light... and who is still in darkness (even though they THINK they are in the Light).
It's that simple. However, you can't SEE... without the Light.
John 8:12 You may THINK you can, but you can't. And many will say that THEY are that Light, but they are not. My discipline was rough, Teejay, and it still is, for, as it says:
"It is FOR discipline that YOU... are ENDURING. God is dealing with YOU as with SONS. For what SON is he that a father does NOT discipline? But... if YOU are WITHOUT discipline of which ALL have become partakers, you are really ILLEGITIMATE children... and NOT sons."
And so, since I wanted to BE a son [of God], Teejay... I had to accept the discipline. And so, what? It is not punishment, but training, from a father to his children:
"We used to have fathers who were of our FLESH to discipline us, and we gave THEM respect. Shall we not much more subject ourselves to the Father of our SPIRITUAL LIFE... and LIVE?"
Didn't we, Teejay, those of us who had fleshly fathers, give them the utmost respect? Wasn't it a given, a "right" even hatefully demanded and wickedly abused by some of them? But... we gave it, didn't we? Why?
"... THEY for a few days used to discipline us according to what seemed good to THEM, but HE does so... for OUR PROFIT... that WE... make partake of HIS holiness."
And doesn't that make sense? If we are to be sons of God, would it not seem logical that we would have to undergo SOME training? Do not the sons and daughters of kings of THIS earth undergo training... from birth? How much more so should we if, from our rebirth, we are to be sons of God? But, is such discipline joyous? No, for it says:
"True, NO discipline seems... FOR THE PRESENT... to be joyous... but GRIEVOUS..."
Who LIKES to be disciplined, Teejay? I certainly don't. I would LOVE to say that I've got it all down and make no mistakes and so I can just walk on by myself. Nothing could be further from the truth? Tell me, do soldiers like discipline? But what kind of army would you have if they weren't? So, there is a PURPOSE to such discipline, isn't there? Let's see:
"Yet AFTERWARD... to those who have been TRAINED by it... it yields PEACEABLE fruit... namely RIGHTEOUSNESS."
And "righteousness" is not keeping the Law, dear Teejay, but LOVING God, Christ, your neighbor... and your enemy. It means being merciful and forgiving. It means helping if you have the means. It means pity, compassion, patience. Love is kind... and love... never fails. It is by THIS that we PROVE ourselves sons of our heavenly Father. Matthew 5:43-48
But RELIGION forces a different kind of discipline upon us, one fraught with heavy loads and burdens: meeting attendance, field service, church attendance, Bible reading, magazine reading and placement... etc., etc., etc. And all of that has been done for centuries and decades. Has it yielded "peaceable fruit"? Again, by their WORKS... you will know them.
Even when I tell you that you are WRONG in nearly ALL of your assumptions about me, you tell me that I'm not being truthful.
I assumed nothing, Teejay. You asked me... and I spoke truthfully. And I am not surprised that you do not agree, for neither did I when he first revealed me... to me. If you think I didn't protest, you are wrong. But... it was the truth... and I had asked for the truth. It was given me... by the Truth.
No, Shelby is convinced beyond any shred of doubt that she knows what teejay has said in prayer over the years... how he's NOT asked god for help; how he's NOT cried out in pain; how he has NOT repeatedly shown humility, etc. in order to have even a slight encounter with god as so many other millions have. You THINK you know what I have and haven't done in prayer, but you don't. How could you?
I... know... nothing... Teejay. Nothing. I have told you that. It is the truth.
Despite your closeness to The Voice, Shelby... you don't know it all.
I... know... nothing... Teejay. That... is... the... truth.
Not by a long shot.
Not by ANY shot. But... you're not hearing me. Or rather, you're not READING me... for I have said this very thing I don't know HOW many times. I have professed it, that what I hear and what I share is NOT mine.
And for you to so casually dismiss all that I have done in the past (of which you are totally ignorant) in trying to get to know god is offensive.
I've dismissed nothing. I have no knowledge of you; it is my Lord who knows you. Not me. You asked me. I asked him... and gave you what he gave me.
And no, Shelby, your callous, heartless, condescending words are not to be construed as "discipline from god" like you think. All it is is one human (you) treating another one (me) abusively. That's all it is.
If you think me abusive toward you, dear Teejay, then please accept my most humble and sincere apology; for that truly was not my intention. I thought you'd asked to be told (shown) the truth. It is what I gave you. Please, tell me again, what do you WANT me to say when you ask why is it that you do not hear? Tell me, and I will tell you if I can say such thing. I must warn you, however, if it is not the truth, I cannot tell it to you. Because such falsehood WOULD be mine... and I don't think you want that. But, I could be wrong...
(By the way, what you have presumed as callous and heartless, might be one reason why I am used: I will say it just as he gives it to me, without altering it, changing it, falsifying it, or watering down. In that way, you can be sure that YOU are getting exactly what I got. You have another option, however - go to him yourself and ask him yourself. And LISTEN when he speaks and put faith in what he tells you... whether you like it or not. So, yes, Shelby... put me down in the human column as you go about your "work" of propheting for god, doing his work of judging people.) But I have not judged you, Teejay, nor have I judged anyone. I am no better than you, other than perhaps I'm a little more "chicken" than you: I wouldn't ask God or Christ what you do in the way that you do. Not because I fear some kind of retaliation; no, because I love them. I wouldn't ask anyone... anything... in the way some of you do. But that's just me. I am not a "challenger", per se. And no, that doesn't make me "better" - just DIFFERENT, perhaps.
I am indeed human and many (if not most humans) who deal with you as I have will quite likely see you as I do... in one of two ways.
As is to be expected, yes? I find no fault with that, as I have been warned that it is "torture" stake/tree, versus a rose garden. My spirit is prepared for that; I have asked that my flesh me, as well.
Sorry.
There is no apology necessary, dear Teejay. I now understand your intent. Please accept my apology, however, in advance, should it occur again that your words are... unkind... and I respond to that. My intention is not and would not be to reciprocate, but to make sure of where you truly stand. That's it; that's all.
As always, I bid you the greatest of love and peace.
Your servant and a slave of Christ to time indefinite,
SJ
