But just to play devil's advocate here... I seem to recall reading that the Greek word translated 'until' carries the sense of 'up to', but not necessarily 'terminating at'. I don't know whether this is the case for Hebrew or not, but are you certain that the Hebrew preposition here conveys the exact same nuance as the English?
Even if Chronicles is in question, Jeremiah 25 says that the 70 years were fulfilled (done, over with, kaput, finished, etc., etc.) and then the king of Babylon was punished. He was killed the night of the invasion, the night of the handwriting on the wall. So at that point 70 years was already over. It could not have ended 1 or 2 or 3 years later.
Scholar once wrote about 2 different 70 year periods. Possibly as a way to explain away Jer 25. Perhaps he believes one 70-year period did end with the killing of Babylon's king and another 70-year period ended when the Jews returned home. Overlapping 70-year periods within two years of each other. That'd be confusing to the Jews. And it's a stand the JWs do not take. Hmmm. An anti-WTBTS stand from scholar? Congratulations!
Though I too believe that another "70 years" is spoken of. Only one is prophetic, however. The other is just speaking of 70 years gone by and also supports the chronology held outside the WTBTS. The first 70 years, the prophetic ones start when "these nations" start to "SERVE" Babylon. History tells us that Nabopolassar rises up and frees Babylon from Assyria and becomes the dominant ruler in the region, and the surrounding areas (these nations) begin serving Babylon. History tells us that was in 609 BC. The Babylonian empire comes to an end in 539BC when it is conquered by Cyrus. At which time, no nation can "serve Babylon" because it has been overthrown. 609 to 539 is how long? 70 years. Wow! Fits like a glove!
There is also another overlapping 70 year period that does start with the overthrow of Jerusalem in 586/587. Daniel 9 and Zechariah are both written in the time of Darius who began to rule in 522. They talk about these past 70 years. Zechariah 1:7 says:
Then the angel of the LORD spoke and said: 'O LORD of hosts, how long wilt Thou not have compassion on Jerusalem and on the cities of Judah, against which Thou hast had indignation these threescore and ten years?
This was spoken in the 2nd year, 11th month, 24th day of Darius's reign. Which, if you start from 522, you get the end of 520 or 519, depending on whether or not an assension year is involved. Back up 70 years to the end of 590/589. What happened about that time? If Jerusalem was desolate since 607, then this 70 years of not showing compassion to Jerusalem began around 590/589, about 18 years into their stay at Babylon. The Lord withdraws his compassion from Jerusalem and the cities of Judah. We're not talking people, we're talking locations, cities. So, according to WTBTS literature, there's this city of Jerusalem lying desolate for about 18 years, and then Jehovah decides to withdraw his compassion for it. Does that make any sense? Does Jehovah just now realize, "oh, it's empty. I guess I should withdraw My compassion."? Obviously not. The cities must have been populated at that time. This, according to secular chronology is about the time that Nebuchadnezzar is starting to lay seige to the city. That could be the time Jehovah withdraws his compassion, allowing the seige to happen.
In Zechariah 7, the word comes to Zechariah in the 4th year of Darius, in the 4th day of the 9th month. The people ask whether they should weep in the 5th month.
Then came the word of the LORD of hosts unto me, saying: 'Speak unto all the people of the land, and to the priests, saying: When ye fasted and mourned in the fifth and in the seventh month, even these seventy years, did ye at all fast unto Me, even to Me?
This was in Darius's 4th year (518/517). These people have been fasting and mourning in the 5th month and in the 7th month for 70 years. What happened 70 years prior that they would mourn? This would have been about 588/587. Again, according to the WTBTS, this would have been some 20 years into the desolation of Jerusalem while they're all away at Babylon. Did some significant event happen during their stay in Babylon to warrant 70 years of mourning?
2 Kings 25: 8 and 9 tells us about the final days of Jerusalem:
Now in the fifth month, on the seventh day of the month, which was the nineteenth year of king Nebuchadnezzar, king of Babylon, came Nebuzaradan the captain of the guard, a servant of the king of Babylon, unto Jerusalem. And he burnt the house of the LORD, and the king's house; and all the houses of Jerusalem, even every great man's house, burnt he with fire.
Further verses go on to talk about Gedaliah being set up as a govenor for those left behind in Babylon (the poorest of the poor). Then verse 25 says what happened to him after only a short reign:
But it came to pass in the seventh month, that Ishmael the son of Nethaniah, the son of Elishama, of the seed royal, came, and ten men with him, and smote Gedaliah, that he died, and the Jews and the Chaldeans that were with him at Mizpah
So, it doesn't say how long Zedekiah fled in the 4th month, but it's possible he was caught and killed either in the 4th or 5th month. But definately by the 5th month, the seige is over and the temple is trashed and the inhabitants are carried away prisoner. Then, in the 7th month, Gedaliah is killed and the people flee, finally leaving Jerusalem desolate. Hmm, two events worth mourning, one in the 5th, the other in the 7th, both surrounding the siege at Jerusalem that the WTBTS says occurred in 607. Could this be what the Jews are mourning in Zechariah? It says they've been mourning for 70 years though, which meant they started around that 587 timeframe. So if I've got this right, according to the WTBTS, these events happen in 607, but the Jews don't start mourning for 20 years? And then continue to mourn until 517? Why wait 20 years to start mourning? 20 years is a long time to be in shock.
Or maybe, here's a wild idea. Maybe these 70 years of mourning started in 587 because that's when the Jews were taken captive, the temple trashed, and Gedaliah killed. Maybe they started mourning right away.
I think it's all further evidence against the 607 date.
Scholar has made much of referring to the Society's literature which does not explain these things or even attempt to, so far as I know. Scholar has said he is working on some premise, which he has yet to share, though he's had several months to work on it. Scholar believes in two overlapping 70 year periods, one of which I think he feels ends when the king of Babylon is overthrown in 539 and the other ends in 537. Scholar claims there is secular evidence that makes 587/586 doubtful but has not produced it. Scholar has not addressed scriptures such as Jeremiah 25 or provided a more detailed explanation of his 2 70 year periods. Scholar has taken every hard question and, without refuting it, has chosen to dismiss it with weak reasons. Scholar, please stop side-stepping and give us your theory. Interestingly, your 2 seventy year periods don't appear in any JW literature that I know of. Do you or do you not believe JW teachings? Isn't this going ahead of them? Better watch your back if you start doing your own "independent thinking" or you're likely to end up in a judicial comittee.
I personally have begun to think Scholar well knows he is beaten. That he is on this board, perhaps as a JW plant. His only goal is to try to present the JW 607 picture of things as having solid evidence and try (however weakly) to raise doubts about 586/587 dates so that if any loyal JWs are lurking, they might not be so easily won over. Or he is merely playing games. Arguing against valid points with weak arguments or dismissing them, his only intent is to tick us off. In the end, I think he is only doing badly for his point of view. Posters like Alan F are so well versed and express themselves so well that I think they win the case against 607 to any faithful JWs that are lurking here.
