Question for elders or ex elders

by northern girl 73 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Big Tex

  Is this any business of the elders since the person was not IN anyway.

  Legally, morally and ethically? No, of course it isn't. How you live your life whilst out of the organization is none of their business. Now, having said that, will those elders feel that way? No of course not. They will want to investigate any behaviors that they feel are inappropriate. If you were smoking while being in a disfellowshipped state, then they will hold that against you. They will make it that much more difficult on you in order to become reinstated. The standard wait time (subject to the elders' whim of course) is one year. However if you have been smoking or any other JW no-no, then the wait might easily be longer. Is that fair? No. Is that the way it is? Yep. Just remember when you apply for reinstatement you are playing by their rules.

  If they aren't aware, is the person obligated to tell them

  Nope. You don't have to say a word. However, there is one big caveat. IF they ever find out what you did whilst being DF'd, you will be disfellowhsipped again. IF they find out while you are still DF'd, it will add more time on to your reinstatment process. Realize you are dealing with massive egos. These men are kings over their little domain and they will mete out whatever punishment as they see fit.

  I don't mean to sound harsh, but that is the reality. You could luck out and find a good, decent and kind-hearted elder, but they are in short supply. And even then if such one finds out that you did not confess everything, he will no longer be on your side.

  You've got a tough road ahead NG. The deck is stacked against you and they will most likely make this experience as difficult as they can.
• 

  gumby

  IF they ever find out what you did whilst being DF'd, you will be disfellowhsipped again. IF they find out while you are still DF'd, it will add more time on to your reinstatment process

  B.T.

  Could you explain this point a bit better. Are you saying if a person was DFed for somoking....then while they were DFed, they commited fornication,.... that that the person would be required to confess the fornication also when applying for re-instatement and if they didn't and the Elders found out about this AFTER the person was re-instated......they could be DFed again??????

  Gumby
• 

  Big Tex

  Okay, let me put the caveat in that elders can do whatever they want whenever they want and for whatever reason they want. The standard DF punishment is a year, if the person in question keeps their nose clean.

  If the elders find out while they are still DF'd, then that person is not going to be reinstated any time soon. However, if they find out after the person is reinstated, then yes they are subject to discipline from that judicial committee. And yes that could mean being DF'd again.

  My father in law was DF'd for adultery. He committed adultery a few more times before he finally stopped. He was out a year. At the end of a year, he was reinstated. After he was reinstated, he committed adultery again (and again, and again, and again) but I was the only one who knew about it. I didn't want to know, but he insisted on telling me (too much information!!!!). Anyway, after he committed suicide, I asked an elder friend of mine about it and he said absolutely Bill would have been DF'd again and would have been out for at least 2 years this time. He also said that if the judicial committee had found out while Bill was still DF'd, he would not have been reinstated as fast as he was. And yes, a year is fast to the Witnesses.

  Sorry for not making the point clearer before.
• 

  Nathan Natas

  Hello again, Northern Girl.
  

  All the basic procedures that the elders are obligated to follow are outlined in the Watchtower book, "Pay Attention To Yourselves And To All Of The Flock."

  Don't feel bad if you've never heard of it; it is a book that is only given to the "older men" in the congregation. Thanks to the magic of the internet, however, that book is available online. Here is one location: http://www.douknow.net/jw_manual1.htm.

  Read it for yourself and draw what conclusions you will.
• 

  gumby

  I went throught the "flock" book last night when Tex and I were talking.

  I think the point Tex was making is that if a person is trying to get re-instated, attending meeting and so forth, but all the while during that year he's out and trying to get in.......is leading a double life in some matter of grave sin, then.........if Elders find out AFTER re-instating you that during your year of being out you were commiting grave sin and did not tell them when you were re-instated........then they could df you again. However....I still think that if a person is carrying on sin while "out".........BUT NOT TRYING TO GET RE-INSTATED, does not have to divulge all his sins while he was "out" and not trying to get back "in",....should he ever apply for re-instatement.

  I found nothing in the flock book that dealt with this specifically.It mearly said elders would not want to be hasty when re-instating someone and to make sure they have "works befitting repentence"

  Gumby
• 

  cat1759

  Hi Northern Girl,

  When I talked to my dad about what I had done, he was an elder at the time, he told me not to go to the elders until I was very repentant and that I should confess all I had done while not attending. OH yeah I could see that happening. As I was never repentant it was a moot subject.

  My father had seen alot and did not want me to go before any committee period. He thought they were intrusive. I am not dsf and not sure how this would affect a reinstatement.

  Maybe the elders could finally take action against me by my own words. I should care? My dad is now dead so they can do whatever they want. I leave it in their hands. A truly faithful sister, NOT. Let them wank off in their own darkness

  Cathy
• 

  rocketman

  NG, as evident by the replies, one can see how variable the situations are and how varied the resulting actions of elders might be. As Tex mentioned, sometimes it all depends on what kind of guys the elders are, and as gumby mentioned, there's not a certain 'page in their book' that they can go to (that I know of either) and read exactly what to do.
• 

  northern girl

  Thank you everyone for your input.

  I am going to read all I can in the 'Pay Attention' book. Seems this is one of those gray areas, but of utmost interest to me. Thanks again.

  northern girl.
• 

  gumby

  I believe it was page 175-178 or so under.....".When problems Arise."
• 

  northern girl

  Thanks again ... you all have been very helpfull.

  I've read a lot of the "flock" book. Maybe it's just me, but a lot seems to be left to the discretion of the committee. It also appears that two different committees can come up with totally different findings, but both findings are final and acceptable. (appeals excluded). Of course the basics are there to make decisions on and really, I guess that's all that is necessary, since each case is based on the individual.

  I'm quite sure though that all that occurs in the persons DF'ed days is not up for discussion at the reinstatement hearing ... the way I see it anyway. Seems the most important thing is their present way of thinking and living. A few of you have already said as much, but I was glad to be able to read the book for myself.

  Thanks again ... northern girl.