Question for elders or ex elders

by northern girl 73 Replies latest jw friends

JT

James, you and I used the same techniques in questioning people.
sad to say you and i - along with so many elders were trained in how to question folks and after awhile due to the FEAR factor of the poor jw sitting in the hot seat it becomes so easy to literally scare the Sh!t out of folks- i recall this "Former" bethel buddy of mine bragging about how he had this sister who actually was so nervous that she came on her "Period" - the seat had blood in it when she left- so i thought that he is lying -- i figured the sister just had an overflow or her pad was full, - so i asked Lady "C" can a woman emotions trigger her cycle on and according to my wife it is possible- the sad part is he was PROUD of the fact that they BROKE HER DOWN AND SHE CONFESSED this is why this religion is so dangerous, looking back this jack ass cleaned banks at night for a living yet he held in his hand the POWER TO LITERALLY BREAK A PERSON EMOTIONS DOWN TO SUCH LEVELS
. The second CS was a former District Overseer that was the essence of "SOCIETY MAN". These are the men I learned the tricks of the trade from, either directly or indirectly....
yes and when you are trained by these type of Societey Men- we in turn often times pass it on to the next generation of elders
..When someone has all the info that is presented on this forum and still maintains"This is the truth"......I have a very difficult time accepting their motives for being on the forum. I'm not talking about a "newbie", looking for help or intially believing all the WBTS says. But when you come here day after day and just keep maintaining that there's no question that this is the truth, well, something seems fishy.
well i have to agree to a certain extent, and the reason why i say only to a certain extent is due to what i have read about the power of high control groups- After reading this link-- http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/7798/1.ashx and more importantly this link on the mental effects of wrong beleifs http://www.csicop.org/si/2000-11/beliefs.html the above to links along with other things i have read has really helped me to see the reason why FACTS, PROOF, EVIDENCE, ETC HAS VERY little effect on folks who have determined that they want to hold onto their belief system regardless- a while back i gave the example of the SHOPPING CART and in my view that is who most jw find themselves- one of the first things i wanted to understand was how anyone could be exposed day in and day out to all this info and still want to sell books for wt- in my case i made up my mind as i was about to read the info on the wt to LET THE CHIPS FALL WHERE THEY MAY cause I WANTED TO KNOW WAS THIS THE TRUTH- that i had dedicated all my life to- so i went in reading with the mindset of JUST TELL ME THE REAL DEAL- so it is not surprising when one understands that coming here is something folks do every now and then, whereas wt uses every waking moment to indoctrinate you meetings, talks, assemblies, tons of material to read, calendars ,days text, and even when in your car tapes to listen to, video to watch and all your associates/friendss must be jw and always talking about some article they read or an exp- with such a CONSTANT indoctrination process at work for 10-20-30 yrs it really is easy to see how someone coming here and just reading 3 quotes from a 1924 wt would have little if any effect initially, but over time many of us have seen folks come to the net as dye in the wool society men or women and in time they often become the most stanuch "apostates" smile I look at myself- and if i can change anybody can - smile what i find is that the avg jw like this poster here- comes and ask a question that CLEARLY shows SHE HAS NO IDEA OF HOW THE SYSTEM WORKS- now not knowing how the system works is not really the problem, the problem is when folks come here ask those who know and then turn around and disregard the information i have watched so many folks come to this site and others- fail to listen and head straight into Judical meetings only to get the Hell Beat out them- in my veiew suffering pain for no reason like the lady the other day- she posted that the elders whipped her almost to death "Emotionally" speaking- lurkers and others truly need to listen to the voice of reason, in my personal view-- THERE ARE TOO MANY FORMER ELDERS ONLINE for anyone to end up being beaten up be the Cheese and Cracker Men- all these former elders and some current ones who are on their way out- can help "publishers" navigate the wt mind field much better than they can by themselves and why CAUSE WE KNOW HOW THE SYSTEM WORKS so lurkers and others please let the former elders and others in THE KNOW--- here on line help you to avoid needless pain just my 2
JT

nORTHERN GIRL SAYS
I have to admit, you scare me a bit
THAT is not my intention, my are well known on this site and others "I call a spade a spade"
i am merely telling you the real deal, if it scares you then it should because this is the way it is for so many persons who are subjected to 3 men asking questions about issues that they have no right to.
as i mentioned what you do with this information is entirely your call- my only wish and suggestion is that you take advantage of what wealth of information you have because once you return to the world of wt you will not be able to since JW are forbidden to read, discuss to veiw anything that put the wt in a bad light REGARDLESS of whether it is true or not-
I ask of you but one favor after you read this post- -
Please print out this thread, put it into an envelope, DATE IT and seal it- and in 20yrs from today
-7-16-03 to 7-02-23-
you will look back on this day and remember that a black guy from Wash, DC along with a number of other folks encouraged you to take a second look at the wt.
here is what you can look forward to- after reinstatement you will be given a BLACK SCARLET letter to wear, when ever someone introduces you they will be sure to let the person know that you were DFed, if the elders are flunkies they will tell thier wives all the details of your case, this way you can become the conversation for the car groups
you know that sister that got reinstated, i heard so and so- - if you move to a new congo, the elders will be sure to tell the new body of elders about you and in turn the folks in your new congo will know your life story as well- as one sister stated when she first came to this new hall everyone was so loving UNTIL her letter of introduction came and then all the elders wives knew she had slept with a sister husband and the WORD WENT FORTH to all the sisterss in the hall:
"Sisters watch your man" this new sister is on the prowl- , my point being you have the wonderful prospect of constantly being reminded at every turn that you are a failure, while on paper it will say YOU ARE BACK but the reality for so many folks is they end up being treated like dirt afterwards-
so my dear friend take advantage of the sites here, when i first came to the net some 7 yrs ago i went into chatrooms, etc, and i got mad at all the former jw and thier attitude and their desire to SIN-
THEN I went to sites with NO COMMENTARY AND NO CHATROOMS, JUST information and i READ READ AND READ and that is what i encourage everyone to do, read as much as you can-
in fact i fully agree with the Wt position on jw not reading stuff here on the net about the organization- for if i had the type of stuff in my closet that wt has in it's closet i would not want my members to know as well- smile
northern girl

Nosferatu:
Didn't King David suffer while repenting for his wrong-doing? By his open prayers and honestly facing up to what he did wrong and through supplication; I'm sure he suffered.
Some suffering tests ones metal (sp); shows whether it is important enough to us to do something about it. Suffering isn't my forte but hopefully see an end in sight.
northern girl.
minimus

Good post, as usual, JT. Unfortunately, some, believe that once out of the Watchtower, getting advice from any former elder is a no-no. Some strongly dislike ex-elders or ex-Society men giving them any insights. It's their problematic mindset. I agree that reading a few snippets from this site will probably not stop you from becoming a WT. believer. But when a person regularly reads, digests and sees what the falsehoods of the "truth" really is, how can that be ignored with "I still believe this is the truth"? If a person KNOWS that the Society and FDS says it's a SIN to come on these sites, how in good conscience can a person get on here, only to WANT to return to the vomit of the Watchtower's Society's false teachings? Is it because of being "mind-controlled"? Or is it more often than not a stubborness to just want to be a "believer'? Or is it that some people just simply enjoy yanking our chains???
JT

Nosferatu:
Didn't King David suffer while repenting for his wrong-doing? By his open prayers and honestly facing up to what he did wrong and through supplication; I'm sure he suffered.
Some suffering tests ones metal (sp); shows whether it is important enough to us to do something about it. Suffering isn't my forte but hopefully see an end in sight.
northern girl.

Northern Girl
you are in one of those unique positions, you see you were kicked out of the org for something that YOU DID and while i don't know what you did, be it stole a pair shoes from Kmart of slept with CO- i don't know, but the interesting thing is when a jw is DFed they often times much like you blame themsleves for their own course of action, which i agree with ,for we all are responsible for what we do-
what happens SOMETIME-- is that DFed person will stop and take a good look at what foundation the organization is standing on, in my exp in dealing with dfed jw - some do stop to take a look at the org but sad to say many don't instead they use such terms as "I got what i deserved" etc-
well in an of itself that may be true ,the problem is Does the Org speak for god?
we all suggest that you READ READ READ
northern girl

JT:
Thanks for your concern; it's obvious you mean well. And I intend to READ everything I can and hopefully make a knowledgeable decision.
northern girl.
teejay

>>>What I'm basically saying is that true happiness cannot have a foundation based on someone (or something) else.
Nosferatu,
I just wanted you to know that I've really enjoyed your discussion with NG and I think much of what you've said to her has been right on point... including the above. Way to go, man!
asleif_dufansdottir

the society is the representative of god so in fact through them He has df'd me.

What basis do you have to accept this as an actual fact? If this was true you would be right to go back. I have not found it to be true. In fact, I'm really sure it's not true.
Matter of fact, I'm not so sure you have proved it to yourself beyond 'my mom was a JW and I've been told if I want to see her again I have to do what they say'.
Before your meeting with the elders, when you are still 'free' to look into such things, I strongly suggest you deeply research the society's involvement with the UN, whether or not the society has actively covered up known pedophiles in the org, and anything else you can find, to see if the society can be believed when it says something.
I've found that it can't. If the society can't be believed, then you can go back and suffer for what you've done and be the best JW the world has ever known, and it won't matter, because there won't be any paradise earth and you won't see your mom again anyway.
Sorry if that sounds cruel, but it's true. If the society has lied, you're basing your life on a false promise.
Nosferatu

Suffering isn't my forte but hopefully see an end in sight.

Again, YOU are the only one who can end that suffering, not a bunch of men in polyester suits carrying briefcases full of watchtowers. You are the only one who has control over your own life. You can choose exactly what to do with it. You can remain in control of yourself and set your own boundaries according to the bible, or you can put your life in the hands of men who will incorporate their ideas into you of how one should live their life. You end up spending your life worrying what PEOPLE will think if you do this or that. It's no longer Jehovah you worry about displeasing, it's MEN. You in effect are worshipping MEN when you do as they tell you, when you answer questions they throw at you about personal ordeals, when they decide who you can associate with and who you can't.
northern girl

Nosferatu:
If you don't mind we can continue to have dialog via PM. I have nothing against open and honest discussions but for everyone elses benefit and yours and mine lets let this thread die a decent death.
northern girl .

Question for elders or ex elders

Share this