by northern girl 73 Replies latest jw friends
a_d:
If I were to grant that everything you say is a fact, then, yes I could agree with you. Is there not some possibility that your 'facts' are wrong?
I'm not saying there haven't been true cases of molestation. There are terrible things happening to many people; we all know that. I ever favour the words of any victim but in reality there must be proof.
Gotta run ... will resume tomorrow ... northern girl.
apostates ... do you admit to being one?
Yup!!!! And proud of it!!!
ESTEE
Northern Girl.
You seem to be a very loving and nice person.
There are a lot of those within the WT walls.
I hope you make it and survive Armageddon.
You can live forever happy in your paradise.
You deserve to be Jehovah's Witness.
Goodbye........Andy.
Whew! I'm going to make an attempt to roll back the hands of time here.
Hey Northern Girl, I've been following this thread. It's quite long. You do better than me at garnering thread attention.
All kidding put aside, I think back to when I was still a very active member of the Jehovah's Witnesses.
It was 1983. I was having some real struggles, yet, I was attending the meetings, assemblies (sometimes extra ones), associating with JWs, and auxiliary pioneering month after month. Yet, even my prayers and honest to goodness loyal heartfelt service to Jehovah, did not remove my problems.
It got worse.
I had this notion, maybe not exactly the same as yours Northern Girl (don't want to put words in your mouth), that my sin would definitely put me in disfavour with Jehovah. It nearly drove me to suicide more than once. It was awful, and the burden was not lifted and the pressure grew greater.
The sin was done, completed, over and done with. But I still believed, then (1983/84) that Jehovah's Witnesses were God's organization on Earth. I believed that, unequivocally.
I had committed a sin, not once but a few times.
I figured, somehow, despite trying to just simply fade and disappear, that maybe (?) if I got disfellowshipped, it would kick start me back into the organization.
When I met up with the elders, it wasn't initially a Judicial Committee. It was basically something I had to do. I told them what I had done. It was not a pleasant experience.
But as I left them, I remembered all that I had went through just prior to meeting the elders: all that I had given to the organization, my time, my life, my everything! and it still came to naught.
I can understand how you feel. It is difficult, as the feeling I had once, is no longer residing within me. In other words, how I felt in 1983/84 compared to now: no comparison.
But I do remember defending the WTBTS/Jehovah's Witnesses to anyone who had any critique against them. I'd still stand-up for them, despite how miserable I felt. Even when I was gone, I still felt, on occasion, that they were the Truth.
Time went along, slowly....bit by bit, my Watchtower world, was disassembled. Doctrine, and prophecy that I had once believed, crumbled.
With that, I became freer. Yes, I know....'I have heard it all before', and I'm sure you have. It's annoying as hell, but it's true.
Northern Girl, I'm glad you came here. I get the sense you are reading these posts, and I honestly hope that you can see that we speak from our experiences, not just fictional stories.
My faith was unshakable, unwavering and hard as steel.
My time away from the organization (meetings/JWs) left me with free time, oh yeah...lots of it, and it allowed me to ponder, question and dig deeper into 'things'. While I was a perfect little JW, I did not question anything. I had doubts and couldn't understand certain things, but I kept those things to myself for fear of being 'marked'.
Many years have gone by, and when I think back to how I used to be, I can see a bit of my old self within you Northern Girl.
It's not easy living outside of the Jehovah's Witnesses and the WTBTS when that is pretty much all you have ever known, or at least had as a mainstay in your household.
Honestly, believe you me, as difficult and painful it is to be on the outside of the Jehovah's Witnesses and their lifestyle, you can survive and begin to see things differently.
Of course, it's scary as hell sometimes, but one can live outside of the organization. We have all been there to some degree, in the very place you are right now.
You've taken quite a bit on the chin there girl. Pretty tough cookie if you ask me, but the fact that you are here, and asking questions regardless of what they are, shows me, you have....to some degree, an enquiring mind.
Keep using that enquiring mind, and ask lots of questions and remember, if ones faith is unshakable, anything written, posted or shared with regards to the WTBTS: it shouldn't bother you to delve into them. Research it all, and pick it apart if you must, but ask questions.
Don't ever stop doing that Northern Girl.
Honestly, I hope you'll try to live your life outside of the organization. We know how it is, we've been there and you can and will survive, with a perspective unlike anyone else.
I wish you well.
Nosferatu:
Sorry I missed your last post to me yesterday. As I said in my PM to you, the society is the representative of god so in fact through them He has df'd me. I rejected Him first by knowingly allowing myself to get addicted. Therefore; the society is not responsible for any unhappiness I've suffered. I am, as we all are, accountable for my actions.
If I'm still missing the point you are making, I'm sorry.
northern girl.
RAZORBLADE:
You DO have a cutting edge.
Thanks for letting me know your situation. Guess we've both 'been there .. done that'. I DO know where you are coming from and appreciate how you feel. I'm sure in your heart of hearts you are trying to save me from anymore heartache. That is so good of you ... shows a caring spirit.
You are so eloquent that I feel at a loss ... all I can say is ... I have faith in Jehovah and his organization.
northern girl.
society is the representative of god
according to Northern Girl-
As long as you fail to take the time to make sure of above comment there is very little that any of us can do to help you- you have before you an opportunity to investigate the organization in a manner that no jw for the last 100yrs has had- due to the Information Highway-
will you take advantage of that , well that is a call you must make- I used to DF folks like you all the time ---
my suggestion is to take full advantage of what information is availble much like you are-
just to address your question about OTHER CONDUCT the answer will depend on whether the elders are just Local Flunkies or Real Society men-
real society men will grill you to death esp if you were df for some type of "Sexual" issue-
so it all boils down to the type of elders you have- keep in mind elders are FREE TO ASK YOU ANY QUESTION THEY WANT TO
in fact sometimes elders if they are real Society men - will investigate things about you - then ask you about it knowing full well what the answer is- the purpose is just to see HOW YOU WILL ANSWER-
SUCH As: have you been to a Club lately? - you respond - no bro cause i realize that those there don't love ,jah and it is bad association, etc
well the elder already knew that according to his half worldly daughter you are a frequently visitor of "Bubba Pub"
so they will often time test to see if you are truthful
one of the techniques we used to use as taught to me by the wt elder school instructor was to start off by explaining to the person the need to tell the truth and after we open with prayer the judical meeting will be under the guidance of Holy Spirit and for the person to keep in mind that ANYTHING you fail to come forward with will BE REVEALED BY GOD HIMSELF IN DUE TIME
of course in the case of a reinstatment prayer is left out, but the point is we were taught to do a "SCare the Hell' out of folks introduction-
we were taught to carry the "Do not share in the sins of others" wt article on every sheparding call- and to go over it
you will not believe how many folks would come forward with "sins' that they committed or ones that they knew others had committed- it was the best way to whip up the guilt tripping
SO your case will depend entirely on the type of elders you have- but the larger question that you really need to address is DO THIS MEN who work at Walmart and Costco have the right to ask you did you such a man's "penis"
if you would like to read a judical case take a look at my very first judical case as a new young elder-
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REPOST
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/4114/1.ashx
PANTIES OR THONGS
I thought the name of this thread was so on time for this thread demostrates one of the sad things about claiming to speak for god, when one actually does not.
when i was a newly appointed elder at the tender age of 27
i was introduced to the world of the JUDICAL COMMITTEE.
It was in fact my first case. i had gotten a call from the PO before the meeting stating that their would be an elders meetings to discuss some judical matters. i sat thru the meeting thinking and wondering
what type of case would it be and would i be selected to serve on it since i was a new elder or would i be told next you can serve.
right after the prayer we quickly entered the 2nd school. and there we sat, the po annouced that he had been approached by a single sister who stated she had sexual relationship with a man on her job and this would require the formation of a judical committe.
i recall so well that one bro almost jumped out of his seat to volunteer stating that since she was in his bookstudy he felt that he would be in a good position to serve.
the po stated he would be out of town so he could not do it this weekend and it needed to be handle quickly cause it was publicly known on her job
- the guy got the sister stuff and-went bragging about bagging a JW-
so another bro was recommended and then the po said let James serve it will be good exp. we got 2 exp elders already.
so the time was arranged for sat at 2pm at the hall to meet with her but we would meet at 1:30pm to review the flockbook
well i was up late friday night reviewing the flockbook on how i could be a loving shepard for this dear sister who had been swallowed up by this worldly man - a tool of satan_
then the time came she walked into the room and i had known her for a number of years and my wife and her were good friends so the embarrassment on her face was so telling
after a prayer the chairman explained a few ground rules no tape recorders , etc
then she was asked to tell us what happened
when she finished --the woman was shaking and eyes just full of water
then the questioning began
at first the question were basic one that i thought sounded reasonable, but in just a few min i realized why the bookstudy conductor wanted to serve on her case
i found out later that he was interested in her yrs ago, but she wasn't
he married and his wife was one of those big black sisters who was good in field service , but not much to really look at
while this sister kinda put in mind of a Venessa Williams type to put in plainly she was a nice looking sister i won't lie
but the questions took a wild left hand turn, he started and the other bro would followup it was like machine gun questions
Who was on top
Did he Climax
was there oral or any anal
and on an on it went
and yes the famous question:
"Were you wearing Panites or Thongs?"
i could see that she was starting to lose it and she just brokedown into tears- so she was excused to go to the bathroom
while she was out it was explained to me as a new elder that such questions were NEEDED to see if she was consistent in her story and the details- to see if she was truly repentant or was it a practice
he explained to me that a "Practice" could be considered if the person had sexually intercourse more than once during the night while in the bed with the person- that it was not needed for it to be separate days, but more than once in the same night and it "could be" considered that the person had made it into a "Pratice"
the TECHNICAL DETAILS that wt gives it's elders are unreal
such as the difference between
1. MOMENTARYLY TOUCHING A SISTER'S BREAST
2. CARRESSING IT-
oUR WT elders school spent about 25 min in our class explaining the difference between the two and each has it's own
punishment
i was told that the Panty-Thong question would reveal
"INTENT" "Scheming" "planning" etc on the part of the sister
you see as it was explained to me if she was wearing Bloomers or reg panties then if a claim was made that we got carried away in the heat of the moment then it would be possible
but if she was wearing "Thongs" then she went to his house with the intent of Giving him Some
now this is how i was beening groomed and instructed, being a new elder who had never served on any case i didn't know
these guys were exp elders with yrs of judical cases under thier belt-
beside these were all Former bethelites like myself so of course the boys from THE HOUSE knew how the judicial meeting was to be handle
well she came back into the room and sat down and the questions started again in a few min and at this point she refused to answer anymore questions LIKE THAT and she told us she would not answer THOSE TYPES OF QUESTIONs
"Girl Friend" picked up her bag and walked out
in 5 min we decided that she was "UNREPENTANT" AND DFED HER
I SWEAR TO GOD i only wish i could find her and tell her how sorry i was for allowing her to literally be ganged raped by those guys
this system of the WT of having men called Elders with no training FREELY be able to ask any Damn quesiton they want to and the persons is obligated to answer or else be viewed as not working with Jehovah's Organization is a Damn Joke
I often wonder whatever became of that sister- she attended only about 2or 3 meetings after the annoucement and disappared into thin air
If you are reading this post and you know who you are
for i'm in the Washington DC area of the country
I beg you to please accept my apology for supporting such a cruel and evil system
James
James, you and I used the same techniques in questioning people. When I was growing up, the original Congregation Servant was appointed such just a year and a half after his baptism. He is still an elder today. He ALWAYS went by the book. The second CS was a former District Overseer that was the essence of "SOCIETY MAN". These are the men I learned the tricks of the trade from, either directly or indirectly......When someone has all the info that is presented on this forum and still maintains"This is the truth"......I have a very difficult time accepting their motives for being on the forum. I'm not talking about a "newbie", looking for help or intially believing all the WBTS says. But when you come here day after day and just keep maintaining that there's no question that this is the truth, well, something seems fishy.
JT:
I have to admit, you scare me a bit. Time will tell what my hearing will be like. All I'm trying to do is go into it with all the knowledge I can get.
Let's put it this way ... if my hearing is successful, none of you will ever hear from me again. If I'm reinstated, they will let me know when it will be announced ... I will post that here and for obvious reasons will never be back.
So ... let's see what happens.
northern girl.
the society is the representative of god so in fact through them He has df'd me. I rejected Him first by knowingly allowing myself to get addicted. Therefore; the society is not responsible for any unhappiness I've suffered. I am, as we all are, accountable for my actions.
You may be accountable for your actions, but that was 2 years ago. You're now ready to get back into Jehovah's good graces, but you must endure more suffering to do so by facing more shunning. Please tell me where in the bible it says that people must suffer to get back Jehovah's favor.
