To: IW - Stop Dodging the Bullet (page 2)

Simon

There seems to be a coordinated attack on Ray Franz going on by BB supporters / followers

As always with these people, there are lots of amazing allegations and headlines but very little substance.

hawkaw

I do like what Scully said and TeeJay said too.

Why is SL or Bill not officially posting? Because there were people on this planet, including me, that recommended that he only had so much time available to family, work and the cause. A debate such as the one that came out made him lose focus on the real issue - child abuse and the WTS's tactics. So when it came to the cause he needed to focus on his web site and helping the victims in the court case. Keep in mind that I am not in someone's camp either as I issue my own press releases and do my own little things up in Canada and of course in the USA. But I am proud of what Bill has accomplished over the years and enjoyed working with him on certain projects. Of course I also enjoy working with others who have a differing view of Mr. Bowen's tactics too.

I don't know Mr. Franz but he was nice enough to publish the October, 2001 UN letter I obtained from Hoeffel in his fourth edition of Crisis of Conscience. And I know his books have helped out quite a few people. Alan F.'s stuff - who I find is someone who has created some of the best research into the JWs I have ever come across - is also someone I hold in high regard and who has help many. I could go on.

In my opinion things are much better for the cause. The lawyers are doing their thing. Bill seems more on track - having been part of the Canadian and Swedish shows, CBS evening news, talk radio et.al. over the last few months as well as expert witness testimony. Barb is doing her legal thing and of course other Survivors and exJWs are doing their thing too.

hawk (a raptor who enjoys the Scully's camp)

waiting

Dear Simon,

I've been reading your Forum Assistants on several occasions now. Imho, it does seem that they're playing the law sometimes, so to speak.

They can lock threads (jst2lws) and then introduce new threads within a short time (Amazing) stating that their threads on the same subject not be locked immediately. And IF they're to be locked......then they will decide if, when, and after what last comment - as Amazing has stated in his opening comments. IW has not been given that opportunity.

First, Simon and other Mods, please let this thread run its course for a while. If it gets too dicey, then I will move or lock it. My goal is not to have a big flame war, but to expose an issue for what it is.
IW: Since the other thread was locked, then lets make this real simple and get to the point:

I've seen at least 3-4 posts lately on different threads (and I surely don't read everything) lately where Forum Assistants give their opinion in a discussion - which sometimes varies from other posters........and at the same time threaten to lock the thread they're commenting in.

If Forum Assistants wish to lock a thread - ok. But I don't think they should give their opinions in a discussion....and at the same time threaten to lock the thread down if the discussion continues. They should remain separate from the discussion if they're threatening to lock it. Otherwise, it reads that when they don't agree.........they lock.

If Forum Assistants wish to discuss/argue - ok. Join the discussion as a poster - not in their Forum Assistant capacity. Discuss/argue with us as posters.

But some of your Forum Assistants are playing both sides - and this thread & IW's last night are prime examples - imho.

Actually, I kinda agree with IW & Amazing.....and if Jst2lws hadn't locked that thread - it would have been an appropriate place to continue their discussion, eh? As it was, Amazing went around Jst2lws and started this thread to call her out - and used his Forum Assistant status to do it (HE would lock it down if HE wanted to).

Can IW lock this thread.....and start another to denounce/demand of Amazing? No - she doesn't have the authority Amazing does. She's a poster.....like the rest of us.

I could never be a Forum Assistant - and I recognize the value of them in helping you - but it's a *dicey* area. Good Luck hitting a status quo.

waiting

hawkaw

Actually waiting,

I go on this board this morning and have been reading all of this.

I agree with you on this issue - 100 percent and I made a similar note to the others on the admin. post as well.

waiting

Actually Hawk - thank you.

I figured I'd get burned on this one.

Thank you again....a lot

waiting

Gordy

Maybe Ray Franz does know what went on in the WT over paedophiles etc. But unless he has strong evidence to back it up it could be dangerous to publish.

The Watchtower would have him in court in a flash. They would love any excuse to discredit him. Imagine the effect it would have if they could. It would call into question all that he has already published. Do we want that?

Who knows maybe Ray has something to publish after his death, that will really hit the WT.

jst2laws

Waiting,

You know I love you and your family and it hurts me that you feel I have not been fair. But I will try to explain again the difference as I see it in a debate and an attack.

Last night I made several attempts to steer Islandwoman’s discussion away from unfounded accusations that may harm a person's reputation. As I stated to Studying on Islandwoman’s new thread (note, Islandwoman also started a new thread on the topic and it is not locked) http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/56160/1.ashx

I hope you can understand that because child molestation is a serious crime to suggest a person is withholding information about this crime is no small matter. No one should suffer such charges or even implication of complicity without substantial evidence. No evidence was being presented last night, just the same old accusations. That is why I locked the thread.

If this thread takes a bad turn and changes from a discussion based on facts to personal attacks on Ray Franz or anyone else I am confident it will be locked as well.

Actually, I kinda agree with IW & Amazing.....and if Jst2lws hadn't locked that thread - it would have been an appropriate place to continue their discussion, eh?

I agree. I wish the allegations would have been supported last night or else the unsupported charges stopped voluntarily. As for as I was concerned it was a temporary lock until Simon and other mods could review it. Any one of them can unlock it. I would personally unlock it now if Simon was agreeable but it is rather redundant since we are here now having the discussion but without the attacks.

We have been through this before and it harmed a lot of people including the Silentlambs cause. What I did was for all concerned, not because I had a different opinion. And you know I would not "burn" you for disagreeing with me. Take care

Steve

northern girl

Gordy:

Do I understand your second paragraph?

Is questioning what Franz has already written a taboo? Do we want that?

Excuse me ... I thought this forum was about exposing falsehoods no matter what side of the coin.

northern girl

jst2laws

northern girl,

Is questioning what Franz has already written a taboo? Do we want that?
Excuse me ... I thought this forum was about exposing falsehoods no matter what side of the coin.

You're "excused".

You misunderstood Gordie. He was not saying we should not question what we read from R. Franz or anyone else. He said:

unless he has strong evidence to back it up it could be dangerous to publish.. . . It would call into question all that he has already published.

What Franz has written is extraordinarely documented. To publish what lacks "strong evidence" would damage his well established credibility. It was a good point.

Personally, I am confident that is not the reason he has not published on this subject. He really has nothing to contribute. This subject was more of a private family matter 30 years ago. Modern society has grown tremendously in recent decades and has brought this "private" matter to the media and the courts. Our keen consciousness on the issue was not common when R Fanze was in the watchtower.

Jst2laws

northern girl

jst2laws:

You are excused also.

Can Gordy not speak for himself? (Now you've explain what he thinks it's pretty easy for him ... IMHO.

northern girl

To: IW - Stop Dodging the Bullet

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