To: IW - Stop Dodging the Bullet (page 6)

bigboi

Good causes unfortunately provide much fodder for rhetoric and excuses for ppl who haven't learned to adequately deal with their emotions. This whole Ray Frantz/Bill Bowen thing is proof of that.

Amazing

Little Witch,

A direct accusation...perhaps...

Not sure what you are referring to.

One I happen to agree with....

Agree with what about whom? Can you be a little more specific? And what evidence do you have to suport your agreement?

I think Franz should address the issue, or stop addressing any issue....This man made the rules, answer or your silence will speak for you..

He responded to me questions that I promised to ask him. he left it up to me to make a post. He said what he had to say. What else do you expect?

I personally refuse to remain silent....You cannot smack me hard enough to make me shut up, where the saftey of children is concerned...

No one is trying to shut you up. This is a strawman way of diverting attention from giving substantive facts, of which you seem not to have any.

Put up, or Shut up...

Could you be specific here ...

But I do agree, that it is two seperate issues......
We all take up the most important issues, we cant all take on the world...but for petes sake, if you cant stand up for kids, what can you stand up for?

Then why are you not standing up for kids in Africa suffering from Aids or Ebola, or starving kids in India? How about standing up for the kids in jails in Iraq ... or, let's see, George took care of that one ... the point is easy to claim how someone is not standing up for the Children ... a typical guilt tactic.

If you cant or dont wanna, help kids, then at least STFU, if you cant relate......Never dealt with it??? I dont think so......

Considering I am a victim of sex abuse and I am working on the issue with lawyers. etc ... I am doing something ... what about you? - Jim Whitney

pettygrudger

A direct accusation...perhaps...
One I happen to agree with....
I think Franz should address the issue, or stop addressing any issue....This man made the rules, answer or your silence will speak for you..
I personally refuse to remain silent....You cannot smack me hard enough to make me shut up, where the saftey of children is concerned...

Little witch - I do not understand for the life of me how anyone could "believe" anything, especially allegations such as this (i.e. Ray Franz has direct knowledge of child abuse done by Governing Body members) without actual proof.

I am all for the WTBS burning for their child abuse policies - believe me - they cost me dearly. But I am not for damaging a reputation of an individual just because they happened to be a governing body member at one point.

Seems to me that Bill's just trying to force Ray into saying something, or admitting something that Ray says he does not know. IW (whom I GREATLY respect btw) comes along and basically says this is true, without posting evidence.

not fair imho. If you'll are bent on trying & convicting & VILLIFYING Ray Franz - I'd like to see proof. Simple as that.

SixofNine

I do not understand for the life of me how anyone could "believe" anything, especially allegations such as this (i.e. Ray Franz has direct knowledge of child abuse done by Governing Body members) without actual proof.

What religion was it that brought us all together again?

little witch

Amazing,

I wasn't referring to you, when I said, ''put up or shut up""

I am glad you are doing something for kids....

All I am able to do is to talk, here on JWD...

for now...

I did not intend to slam you in any way....I am terribly sorry...sometimes, I am so pationate about something, that, my words dont come out right.....

pettygrudger

lol @ six - sometimes I forget I was a part of that religion!

little witch

Six,

You have a good point.

But your quote highlight makes it look like something I said.....and didnt....just for the record....

It appears that I said that quote, I did not.

Amazing

Hi Little Witch,

Thanks for clarifying things, it helps a lot.

I did not intend to slam you in any way....I am terribly sorry...sometimes, I am so pationate about something, that, my words dont come out right.....

I did not feel slammed. I appreciate people being passionate about things ... it makes live more alive and worth living.

The reason I jump to Ray Franz's defence is that first he is a "friend" and I feel he deserves to have his side heard. Also, since he is the one most respoinsible for helping millions of ex-JWs to see that the "Truth" is really the "Lie" resulting in their emotional and mental freedom, I want to be extra careful in shooting our own guy with serious allegations and some have done ...

Also, the allegations against Ray are mostly wild speculation of people drawing weird conclusions ... we went through all this about a year ago when Bill Bowen made allegations ... and then again now with some new claims by IW.

Anyway, hope my thoughts help here too ... and thanks again for clearing things up for me. - Jim W.

little witch

Your thoughts help me very much, Amazing.

Like I said, I am not up on this....

There are two threads going on this, and I will go to the archives....

Anyways, thanx for your kindness... I meant no harm.....

Simon

I think using the Silentlambs website to make personal attacks on Ray Franz is petty, amateurish and unprofessional.

I just don't unserstand how they think it helps their cause at all.

To: IW - Stop Dodging the Bullet

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