To: IW - Stop Dodging the Bullet (page 4)

Simon

I'm sorry, I am not going to get into comparing one thread with another or any of this "why was this done but not that". It is impossible to achieve 100% consistency and all topics are different after all.

Every situation comes down to being a judgement call. Ultimately, people have to accept the decisions that are made and I hope will appreciate that they are being made for all the right reasons and intentions.

Some will not like the fact that moderators do have more freedoms than others but this comes with the job I'm afraid - it would be very difficult if not impossible to do otherwise. Yes, we can lock threads but rarely do. Sometimes we have to lock things we have commented on or also started and again, it's a difficult tight-rope to walk.

Of course, I'd hate to fall out with waiting being one of our most long-time posters 'n all so I hope we can just disagree on a few points.

expatbrit

I think the moderators are convenient scapegoats for when perfection isn't achieved, which is all the time, and for obvious reasons like the moderators being human. However, from what I've seen Simon has chosen people to be moderators who have demonstrated a good balance and input (amongst the many on this site). At the end of the day, why is it so important if one of your threads is locked? Is it really worth worrying about it if another thread on the same subject springs up shortly afterwards started by a moderator?

As for the Ray Franz stuff, this was all thrashed out months ago. As I recall, Amazing posted a Question From Readers style article written by Mr Franz justifying his actions on the Silentlambs issue. Also as I recall, Mr. Franz made some comments that were dismissive of the issue, and also claimed not to have come into contact with child abuse during his Watchtower career. Now, I'm not the biggest fan of Mr Franz ("The Silence of the Franz" is one of my nastier phrases), but will rehashing all this again achieve anything? Except for rancour of course. How about doing a cost/benefit analysis before getting into this whole thing again?

Expatbrit

pettygrudger

I am one that would love to see this issue settled once and for all. I had been an avid supporter of Bill's work, but his personal crusade against Ray Franz has me feeling uncomfortable supporting him 100%. As you can see from the Silentlambs website - he has 2 whole pages dedicated just to his own "issues" with Ray Franz.

http://silentlambs.com/personal_experiences/RayFranz1.cfm

It would be nice to see this whole miserable saga put to bed.

logansrun

Ronda,

Thanks for that link to Bill's site. I read portions of the article about Ray and found it to be very distasteful and ameteurish. Honestly, my respect for Bowen is hovering somwhere between minimal and non-existent.

B

little witch

I must admit, I have missed the threads that started this Bill Vs Ray thing....

I can only say this, and this is from what I have read....

An apology to someone should not be belittled by anyone....IW made an apology to Bill, now let it be...Saying "I am sorry" is not easy to say.

I think (this is only my opine, and as such, do not attack me, please

Some, as ex dubs, find it easier to continue being a ''follower'', and still dont wanna venture out to find the facts for themselves..

It is so much easier to let someone else do it for you...

I have seen several posters here, in writing say, "" I just am too lazy to investigate""

There is no excuse....If that is how you feel, than you will quite quickly be duped again...Why do you think this board is here, in the first place?

I know, some of you are very confused, and hurt....we are all at different stages.....but you do need to take on the initiative to investigate, learn, weigh, and decide....I did it years ago, before the internet......so dont say it is to hard for you...

As far as moderators, of course, they have opinions. They dont need to babysit us...most here are adults.....duh.....

As if their sole purpose is to appease some group.........havent we all had enough of that???

I dont mean to sound bitchy, but please,,,,,,,,

How did an apology, ( in my opinion, a showing of love, and concern) turn into this attack??? stop it......

Brummie

IW is very capable of standing up for herself. This thread is not just about Ray or Bill but now about the credibility of IW. She said yesterday that she is out of here. She had enough, thats why she is no where to be seen right now, NOT because she is dodging the bullets.

She wanted to make a public apology to Bill Bowen simply because she had publically scolded him. She didnt want it to turn out into a great big investigative drama.

She made it clear that she had no bad intentions against Ray, she simply disagreed with him and wanted to apologise to BB publically. She didnt call Ray a snake and a Liar and she didnt even imply that he was. She simply felt that his voice could have spoken louder than it has, just as loud as when the UN thing happened. OK so he didnt, but that doesnt mean he is with-holding evil information, she never said that he was. Infact she made it very clear that she wasnt attaking Rays to defend Bill, she was simply making a public apology since that is were she attacked Bill.

She had reconsidered her thoughts, in her new way of thinking she had reached a different conclusion, simply put, she had got a new perspective and now disagreed with her former view. Not based on new evidence but rather based on rethinking the old.

She changed her mind on an issue, if people then think that she must have some big secret information that we havent been told, then the problem is thier paronia and not IWs apology. I sometimes change my mind on issues and dont feel the need to stand up and justify myself in this sort of kangaroo court and give all the reasons as to why I changed my mind.

If you think she is attacking Ray by simply stating her new perspective then the problem is yours.

Leave her alone, folks you AINT elders anymore, get used to it already! for f's sake!

and just incase this gets all misconstrued, I am not on either Ray or Bills side here. But on the side of someones rights to make a public apology without getting all jumped over and made to look like changing her mind about something calls for a Judicial committee.

Brummie

little witch

Amen, Brummie.

refiners fire

Even if RFranz does know some sordid details about the activities of former GB members, so what? Why does that equate that he is obliged to rat them out publicly? I myself have knowledge of crimes committed years ago by persons, and doubtless many here know of some break and enter robbery a family member committed, or an assault in a bar years ago,but they dont feel bound to go confess and dob to the law. RF is under no obligations even if he does no something. And hes said he doesnt know anything. What else is there to be said? I love it that he is condemned by some who are prone to hysteria, obsession and moralistic judgement because he is "silent" on matters. perhaps the poor old sod just wants a bit of peace.

logansrun

Brummie,

Your view of this Island Woman affair is patently absurd. IW insinuated that Ray has unquestionably withheld information and taken a stand against abuse victims by agreeing with Bill Bowen. She did this with her comment regarding Bowen:

Someone I trust has informed me of some things that have caused me to feel that without a doubt your position was the correct one.

So, can you add this all up? Bowen attacks Ray and IW publically agrees with him and says she has information to back up her view. Amazing then simply asks for IW to present the facts. She does not. It doesn't take a brain surgeon to see there are some holes in IW's story (and Bill's).

Bradley

SixofNine

*ahem* Brummie. The plot you lost :

Someone I trust has informed me of some things that have caused me to feel that without a doubt your position was the correct one.
Ray Franz should have supported you and not by his silence add support to the Watchtower! Whatever he knows about Greenlees and Chitty he should reveal and he, imo, should also openly support the Silent Lambs. He of course has the right to do as he pleases, but integrity and love for brother should, imo, move him to speak out before his death when the things he knows will die with him.

Whatever Ray Franz knows he should tell us, are we not in spirit more closely related to him than the members of the Governing Body?

To: IW - Stop Dodging the Bullet

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