What was there before the Big Bang?

by Brokeback Watchtower 88 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  prologos

  F; "--If nothing then how in the world can nothing explode into something and what caused nothing to become something.

  The current thought is, that there never was a nothing as we define it; the nothing prior and "outside" is seething with virtual energy, and the theory is that positive and negative, or matter and antimatter pop into existence balanced , zero energy when combined, but 2 if separated. A slight imbalance resulted in the structure we have today. but to do all this there had to be time to do it in, and that time could well be eternal. Not many like that idea, because it opens the possibility, that an unfathomable  creator might be behind it all, and with all that energy and time on hand, do really great works. 
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  Fisherman

  Prologos: virtual energy

  That would mean that some form of physical substance always existed, in other words, something always existed. I do not believe that. I believe that mass and energy had a beginning. I also believe that before that, nothing existed.

  If it was a "singularity" that exploded as the big bang, where did it come from and where did its proscriptive or descriptive properties that define or govern its existence come from? I guess that my guess is as good as anyone's guess.
  
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  baker

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_DV54ddNHE nothin from nothin leaves nothin
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  prologos

  Fisherman: "--I believe that mass and energy had a beginning. Well, mass (a form of Energy) had a beginning at the big event, but [potential] energy is now thought of to be a property of the nothing, the void. The "big bang" resulting from nothing more than a rearranging of these primordial condition, and then going off centre.

  Like the photon, has no mass, but energy, moves at max rate through space but is stationary in time. Pure energy can linger eternally in time and not know it. 
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  Fisherman

  Pure energy can linger eternally in time and not know it.

  Energy is a (physical ) property of an object. If the "void" had some form of energy then the void and the energy that described it always existed, hence, something always existed. And that something cannot be called nothing.

  Nothing is very easy to understand. It simply means non existent, no properties, no energy -nothing.

  Void is a very deceptive term to use if used to describe non existence. The term void implies something more than non existent, perhaps a condition of emptiness or vacuum.

  My guess is that at some point in time nothing existed, no energy, no void,

  (By the way great posts!!) -as usual.
  
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  prologos

  what was there before the big bang? perhaps the same condition that still exists now "outside" the expanding universe. The before is the same as the outside, an eternal realm that we, on the move through time only touch fleetingly in the moving, zero- length "now". May be we are like the sprinters in the upcoming Olympics, the race starting with a little bang, but there is a bigger, static arena, through which we move. When I use "we" it would mean all things , included in the universe.
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  Fisherman

  Given: "The Big Bang"
  

  Before the big bang, something (some substance) existed that exploded into the big bang.

  The only thing that makes sense to me is that something must be eternal. That substance (something) is the cause and source of everything that exists.

  In terms of the universe as we know it, before the big bang, nothing existed. That "nothing" can be described as or compared to something that was never born -it does not exist.
  
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  Fisherman

  ....entropy...Rather, it means that "nothing" is inherently unstable and will always produce something. -CL
  

  That is nonsense. How do you know that properties of substances and conditions and the laws that describe them in the universe also apply before its formation.
  
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  Brokeback Watchtower

  The presupposing that nothing even exist is presumptuous and can be just as much a fairy tail as God created everything, both have no proof and are conjecture. It might just be like the layers of an onion skin as in when we really find out what cause the big bang then we are left with another mystery about what cause the the "thing" that caused the big bang and then what cause the thing that cause the thing that caused the big bang on into infinity.
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  prologos

  BW: "--hat cause the the "thing" that caused the big bang and then what cause the thing that cause the thing that caused the big bang on into infinity.

  if you just could free yourself from the idea that time is a moving entity and think of it as a dimensions, static and we moving through it, at varying speeds. If movement through time started at the big bang, there was no movement prior to it, and no need for an infinite cascade of causes, because time and energy were, are and will be, are already in the future. eternally, not moving.

  All the books I have read about "something out of nothing" Kraus et al,  always end up by postulating that there is no such thing as nothing. period.