What was there before the Big Bang? (page 6)

prologos

Mephis: "--Or is he not irrelevant to all intents and purposes in your life? Other than a theoretical construct --" well for me, the creator is not irrelevant, because of perceived present inaction, because I am very firmly rooted in the results of the creation/beginning event. I am obsessed with creating things, on a primitive level, but also touching and the cosmic; - emulating all my parents all the way back to where it matters. I am very encouraged by the glimpses into the pre-big bang "outside our universe" that science/math offers. It certainly is a broader, richer worldview, lifestyle now, than that I experienced in my 5 decades long foray into the "spiritual"world of watchtower activity & study.

Mephis

Thanks for answering prologos. Just find it interesting. Different ways to see things I guess. I'm agnostic about it really, though I suspect there will be a non-intelligent design answer to be found at some stage. Personally would want more answers - if intelligence is required for creation, who created God? etc. Also the 'why' of things which doesn't vanish into 'mysterious ways' as an attempt to explain.

But, in any case, scientific laws don't need divine origin. They just are as they are. Because if they weren't, the universe would be different as we perceive it.

Fisherman

fisherman, Why can't we view God in an heuristic sort of way

I conclude that:

beCause: design, the sign, and proof of not only that he exists but also that he has power over reality (time, space, physics, the universe, events, emotions, thoughts , everything..) As such, he is the eternal substance that is the source of everything in the universe, hence, everything is either part of his person (maybe time: credit to prologos) or created by him.

truthseeker

Before the Big Bang there was "heaven", going by the Genesis account.

"In the beginning, God made the heavens and the Earth."

Where was God when he made the "heavens" and which "heavens" are we talking about?

If heavens meant our material universe, I suspect that the "void" we call outer space, has always existed, because the void is nothingness and you can't create nothing because it is "nothing". It's just empty "space" to put things in.

I'm not sure about a "big crunch" because if the universe is 14 billion years old, it would take 14 billions years at the speed of light for universe to "crunch" because nothing could go faster than the speed of light.

Several years ago, there was a space probe called COBE that detected "ripples" from the after shock of the Big Bang.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmic_microwave_background

Just my 2c

Truthseeker

truthseeker

Something to think about...

Why does it have to be this way, everything going round something else?

prologos

ts: "--Why does it have to be this way, everything going round something else?" because the universe is held in an expanding balance between the gravity of mass, and the centrifugal forces of the energy of movement. (even heat is just movement). Any movement in the universe powers it's expansion, Closer in, the planets go around the sun in orbits that balance the inward pull of the sun's mass. That is why the waltz, the loop, the roll are such popular movements too.

Lostandfound

Nothing before the Big Bang, well at least not scores of topics about Prince, must have been very relaxing.

smiddy

If the Universe didn`t start with a big bang , maybe it just started with a whimper .

smiddy

Fisherman

I suspect that the "void" we call outer space, has always existed, because the void is nothingness and you can't create nothing because it is "nothing". It's just empty "space" to put things in.

Empty space is something to put things in. It is not known if ES existed before the bb. I think that it did not exist before the bb but came into existence as part of our universe because it is part of our universe..(Just my guess)

Suppose you were to remove all forms of matter and energy from the universe, could space exist on its own or does it need something?

prologos

Fisherman: " Empty space is something to put things in. It is not known if ES existed before the bb. I think that it did not exist--" very good thoughts in connection with this theme.

There has to be a distinction between intergalactical space, defined in three directions and its point of movement through time, and the void that existed before the beginning bb. Perhaps mass and Energy generate the space and it's field forces as it expands? or is space just an invisible 3 dimensional framework where to hang matter into? Invisible like the kingdom of 1914? would the gravity be strongest just "outside" the universe, as it is strongest just outside the surface of the Earth? falling off in strength toward infinity and to zero at the center?

For these reasons I picture a kind of Ur-space, Ur-time that filled and always has, -eternity.

What was there before the Big Bang?

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