Forgiving & Forgetting

by StinkyPantz 69 Replies latest jw friends

  • gumby
    gumby

    Well I didn't have time to read the 3 pages.....but,

    I am more than happy to forgive ANYONE who is sorry and says so. How a person cannot forgive someone who is cut to the heart at what they did/done is beyond me.

    I do understand those who have been abused by someone they love and cannot forgive even though the guilty one is sorry. People are human and cannot forget a deep deep hurt .....even when they try very hard to. If my dad had abused me as a kid in a sexual way.........I don't know how I'd feel but my gut feeling is I would still loath him even though I knew he was sick. Some hurt goes deeper than our forgiving abilities.

    Gumby

  • MegaDude
    MegaDude

    It takes a lot of energy to hold onto negative hate and anger and thirsting for revenge. For your own personal physical health and emotional health it's best to let it go so you can move on. Also for those people that are around you. If that entails forgiveness, so be it. If forgetting works for you, so be it.

    I don't forgive the Watchtower Society. They're an evil little group of people that know darn well some of the hideous things they do in the name of God are not true or of God. They're not sorry and they're not compassionate. Everything is about salvaging their sorry reputation in the eyes of the sheeple that follow them. Got to keep the illusion going if they're going to maintain their status.

    I haven't exactly forgotten it, but I've let most it go. I just couldn't carry that much anger around anymore. It was too heavy, too draining, too...whatever. I equate forgiveness to letting go of anger over an incident when a person has shown in some way they are remorseful for what they've done. Since the Watchtower Society isn't sorry, how can I say I forgive them? Why would I? They aren't sorry or apologetic for the massive harm they have inflicted. So I choose not to forgive but let it go. Living well is the best revenge. Helping others get out of the same cult blackhole is very satisfying and healing. Enjoying the remainder of your life NOT being a JW is fulfilling. What happened to me in the JWs is over. The effects linger, true. But I have no wish to spend my life an angry, revenge seeking, pissed off person. I get happier every year that goes by. But mainly I want to let it go because that negative attitude flows into everything in your life and your relationships and can spoil them.

    I've talked to two concentration camp survivors. Neither of them forgive the Nazis for murdering their families, but they did put it out of their minds and let it go so they could move on with their lives. They forced themselves to have a positive attitude. One of the people I met was so far past what happened that despite everybody's great interest (we were in a meeting) he really didn't care to discuss it. It was behind him. The other person was enthusiastic in talking about his experiences in the camps, but focused on what kept him alive (positive attitude no matter what) and how his life had been so great since coming to America.

    I don't forgive or forget sometimes, but I can let go. That's what works for me.

  • gumby
    gumby

    Megadude,

    Nice post

    I suppose maybe putting in the..."back of your mind" the things we choose not to be conscious of......is a type of forgiving. Ones may say 'you haven't ever really forgiven', but perhaps not forgiving in the sense of the nazi survivors you mentioned is not a sin and is a natural human reaction and feeling.

    Gumby

  • Odrade
    Odrade

    Personally, I forgive someone something they do that is an accident, or if they were thoughtless but realized it and apologized sincerely... IOW, if the offence was unintended.

    I will NOT forgive if the offence was committed out of maliciousness, or if it was ongoing, or intentional. Or if the person has a reputation for being mean or malicious. When I was a girl, there were some kids in my congregation that were really mean and malicious. They tormented me my entire childhood, and my parents never protected me from them. They told lies, taunted me, stole my friends, every last little nasty thing that kids do... they did. My mom in particular, would rant on about forgiving and forgetting, because it was the "right" thing to do. So I did. Finally, I realized that not everything deserves forgiveness. It depends on the motive.

    I haven't seen these girls in years. One of the last times I did, they made a snide remark to me, and I answered in kind then turned around and walked away. That moment ranks right up there in the top few empowering moments of my life.

    Now, I choose who and when I will forgive. If the incident is important enough to remember, I don't feel bad about it either.

    Odrade

  • talesin
  • arancia
    arancia

    I agree with the facts that it is easyer to forgive,but i also know how difficult it is to forget,especially when we have had very bad experiences.It is true is better for our health not to ponder over and over again,but forgiving & forgettin is a strong instrument and not many knows how to use it, specially when it never get better for the simplest reason that is the other party that would not let go.I have seen lot of stuff like this one and I know it is very self distructive.Therefore is much better to exercise a little every day the fruitage of the spirit with courage,rather then end-up sick and bitter. ciao Arancia

  • Big Tex
    Big Tex

    Stinky

    There is no forgetting. Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat its mistakes.

    There are evils done that are so hideous that forgiveness becomes irrelevent. I think what your cousin did is just such an example.

    You started this thread off talking about feeding off your anger. You realize what that anger is about. But I will say this, that such an enormous rage, however valid and justified, will only hurt you, physically, mentally and emotionally. I see you as a woman who has a tremendous anger that you use to shield yourself from further hurt, but also to hide fear and shame. I think sometimes the anger frightens you, but I also think the fear is about something else as well.

    You're an intelligent woman, and you know you must get rid of these negative emotions. You've got a load of shit dumped on you and unfortunately it's your job to clean it up and put it back on the people who dumped it on you. You do that in therapy. I think you are much more intelligent than I am, so I don't see you spending nearly as much time as I did. In therapy, what happened isn't nearly as important as how you feel about it. It's a slow and painful process but gradually you begin to feel the weight lifting. You discover that even though you're the same person, you're different. And the horrors that visited you, don't look different, but how you feel about them is different. Not a lot, but just enough to make a difference.

    I haven't forgiven my father. I doubt I ever will. But I did forgive myself. I made peace with myself and my past. I had a dream once where I was standing on a hill surrounded by flames that reached to the sky and there was fire as far as I could see. I understood that was my rage. I'm still angry, but I don't rage. It doesn't consume me. Does that make sense?

    But to answer your thread question, there is no such thing as forgiving and forgetting, at least not at the level we're talking about. What there is, is survival and peace.

    Chris

  • frenchbabyface
    frenchbabyface

    (((StinkyP and Everybody)))

  • StinkyPantz
    StinkyPantz

    All great comments, thanks!

    Talesin-

    It has been necessary for me to get past dwelling on the injustice (not always an easy task) in order to let go of the rage that could consume me and turn into bitterness. So, forgive and forget? Maybe not. But dismissing the behaviour and moving on? Yes.

    I have come to realize in my old age, that I am not the type of person that can "dismiss" certain behavior. I think it is very possible to move on, wihout doing so.

    ----

    Also, many people have said that feeding off of anger is bad. I somewhat disagree. My anger at my cousin for what he did to me has driven me to do volunteer work at women's shelters and Big Brother's & Big Sisters. Of course it's not ALL anger. I care about kids; but the anger helps me too. When I start remembering what I suffered and how horrible it was, it helps if I reach out. Also, it is my life's goal to be a Criminal Psychologist for the FBI. A lot of this due to my anger at the man that killed my best friend when I was very small. I am angry that children get abused and often murdered by "loved ones".

    ((Frenchie))
  • LittleToe
    LittleToe

    Maybe it's just choice of words, but the phrase "feeding off my anger" sounds positively self-damaging, to me.

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