I’d say the first things that made me doubt were: the fact that Armageddon didn’t come after the generation died out in 1994, and the fact that they didn’t offer a plausible explanation for that, plus they kept changing the explanation. (They should have stuck with the first revision in 1995 that said it was the wicked generation that was around whenever Armageddon happened to arrive. The explanations just got increasingly bizarre after that.) Then I came across the misquotations in the Reasoning book, the Trinity brochure, and the blue Creation book. Then doubts about the blanket opposition to natural selection as an explanation of how life evolved. Plus there was the misrepresentation of data to make it seem like there had been more and bigger earthquakes in the 20th century, followed by the strange cover up and assertion that there didn’t need to be more or bigger earthquakes in order for the prophecy to be fulfilled. Then there was the persistent increases in the anointed when they should be going down. Plus the authoritarian clampdown on brothers doing their own scholarly research in the 2007 Kingdom Ministry. Doubts about the application of specific verses such as Matt 24:45 and Prov 4:18. Doubts about the “gentile times” chronology, obviously, don’t know how I forgot that one. I think those are the main ones.
Ten reasons Jehovah’s Witnesses have the true religion (plus a bonus one)
by slimboyfat 62 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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FreeTheMasons
What made me first doubt their sincerity was when I tried to report abuse. Their reaction was the exact opposite of what is published in their literature.
And then when I kept writing to the next part up of the hierarchy, whether it was the CO or the branch guys (Service Dept, Legal Dept) and also to the Governing Body.
Once I saw how fake they were - not only fake, but outright wolves - the rest was clear who they really represent. It ain't Jehovah, that's for sure.
WT leaders = Satan's minions
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slimboyfat
Here are some of mine: I thought they were honest and I thought they really loved me and I thought they really loved Jehovah and I thought they really loved truth and I thought they really loved other people.
Yes, that too. Call me naive, but I do think there were and are many genuine brothers and sisters, including in the leadership. There have certainly been pretty awful people too, such as Leo Greenlees and Ted Jaracz, and some leaders lower down, and local elders. But I still think people like Lloyd Barry, Jack Barr, Geoffrey Jackson, Tony Morris in his own way, Fred Franz even, as well as many elders, and other brothers and sisters I’ve come across could be described that way.
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FreeTheMasons
@slimboyfat, I have a soft spot in my heart for naive people - another name for such ones is "sheep."
I agree with you that there are many genuine brothers and sisters who have just been misled by the Watchtower hierarchy leaders. I love them and I miss them. I have hope that when Watchtower falls we will be reunited again.
But as regards some of the individuals you mentioned at the top of the hierarchy, while I have hope that even satanists can repent, I don't think those guys are as innocent or befuddled as many exJWs make them out to be, although the ransom is enough for them if they repent...
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vienne
Freethe, a new posting name?
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slimboyfat
If those accusations are true then Barr would be an awful person. But I don’t believe an accusation just because someone makes it. If I remember reading about this case before, wasn’t there serious doubt about the timing of the accusation because some of the people accused were not where they would have had to have been? If I remember correctly there was a possibility that the accuser was mixing up some details including perhaps mixing up one GB member for another. The fact is I simply don’t know, so I won’t make a judgment either way. The things I do know about Barr for sure make me think he was a sincere person.
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FreeTheMasons
@slimboyfat
You can listen to Deborah Hines' testimony if you want, or you can reach out to her.
https://youtu.be/Mo50Cl2zPeg?si=mKVThR84fTu_fcC9
The Bible is clear that a person who is sexually assaulted doesn't need "two witnesses." I believe her.
"If, however, the man happened to meet the engaged girl in the field and the man overpowered her and lay down with her, the man who lay down with her is to die by himself, and you must do nothing to the girl. The girl has not committed a sin deserving of death. This case is the same as when a man attacks his fellow man and murders him. For he happened to meet her in the field, and the engaged girl screamed, but there was no one to rescue her." (Deuteronomy 22:25-27)
There were not two witnesses, and yet the Mosaic Law said to kill the man who was guilty.
"You must take no ransom for the life of a murderer who is deserving to die, for he should be put to death without fail." (Numbers 35:31)
Watchtower has been accruing a lot of bloodguilt. "Do the math."
Jehovah doesn't make mistakes in His math. Jesus has been assigned to carry out Jehovah's will. He will make a proper accounting. Until those wicked men repent and acknowledge their sins, they are in jeopardy. Jesus ransom is enough for them if they repent, but they have to obey him. They're not doing that yet.
@vienne
My name is Audrey. I have posted here before as Easy Prompt and Fragrant Addendum.
Are you courageous enough to tell who you really are, or will you continue to hide?
(I already know the answer to that question, Judas.)
"Now this is the basis for judgment: that the light has come into the world, but men have loved the darkness rather than the light, for their works were wicked. For whoever practices vile things hates the light and does not come to the light, so that his works may not be reproved. But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that his works may be made manifest as having been done in harmony with God."
I am a witness of Jehovah. @vienne, who are you?
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peacefulpete
.1, They show love among themselves by not going to war. Not killing your fellow believers in any circumstances, including war, would seem to be a very basic requirement for true Christianity.
46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Do not even tax collectors do the same? 47And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even Gentiles do the same?
If your enemy is hungry, give him food to eat, and if he is thirsty, give him water to drink.
"But to those of you who will listen, I say: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you,"
All sects share a certain common bond, the better way is to show love in practical ways for all. That is what I believe was intended by John 13. Jesus is depicted as loving all. Not just his supporters.
2. They honour Jehovah’s name by using it and giving it prominence. Again this would seem to be a very basic requirement for Christians who are said to be called out of the nations as “a people for his name”.
A can of worms. Yahweh was one of the names in the OT but never used by NT writers. Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.
3. They reject the post biblical teaching of the Trinity which uses language that is not found in the Bible and distances people from God by making him appear incomprehensible.
A favorite pet topic for you, you have spent hundreds of hours posting about how you disagree with the church's efforts to formally codify a single definition of God/Christ/Holy Spirit. Suffice to say billions of Christians past and present have had their own take on it.
4. They teach the truth about who Jesus is as God’s firstborn and his loyal servant.
Same as above, the hypostatic expressions of sonship and servitude are not preclusive to traditional understanding of Christ as fully divine.
5. They point to God’s kingdom as the only hope for mankind as Jesus and the early Christian’s did and don’t get involved in politics or social or protest movements.
Another example of circular reasoning, take the JW definition of 'Kingdom' and cite it as proof of sectarian superiority. By the definition of the JWs, God is the 'only hope', not for "mankind" but a tiny portion of it. The rest must be killed. Billions understand the 'Kingdom of God' as an expression of forgiveness and compassion and a Christian movement seeking to imitate Jesus' universal love. Regarding 'involvement' in politics and war, most people see this as detachment from humanity. Failure to get 'involved' is often a definition of cowardice and unconcern. Many of the earliest records include Christians who were soldiers. The OT repeats a story cycle wherein worshippers of God served in foreign royal courts. The JWs have repeatedly engaged in campaigns to influence Government policy, (I personally marched across the Brooklyn bridge when asked to demonstrate against a zoning policy) they just only do it for themselves.
6. They preach and publish in more languages than any other group in history, fulfilling the Bible prophecy about preaching to all the earth in the last days.
The sectarian circular reasoning continues. The last Days were 2000 years ago, they were 1000 years ago they were a hundred years ago. For people wanting something that will never happen, it will always be the 'last days'. The same regarding the definition of the 'gospel' aka 'good news'. A third of the world has been converted to Christianity, certainly the 'gospel' was preached globally long before the JWs. As you know the NT itself asserts the gospel was preached to everyone 2000 years ago.
7. Their founder Russell rediscovered basic Bible truths at a time when technology was in place to facilitate the preaching work worldwide.
Russell was a cult leader adored by thousands as sent by God. His followers alive today identify the JWs as apostates.
8. Jehovah’s Witnesses have increased from a tiny number in one country to be a great crowd of worshippers from all nations of the world.
The one county is the USA, the time was the tail end of the Second Great Awakening. Hundreds of churches and movements arose, many became international.
9. Each of the JW leaders has been just what was needed at the time for Jehovah to accomplish his purpose: Russell to recover Bible truth; Rutherford to arrange a theocratic structure and remove remaining false beliefs and practices; Knorr to organize the logistics of an unprecedented worldwide preaching campaign; Franz to provide a Bible translation that accurately conveys God’s word; the Governing Body in the final part of this system of things to prepare God’s people to come through the Great Tribulation and into the new world.
You are describing the process of a cult of personality becoming a global corporation.
10. Witness teaching about humans looking forward to endless life on earth makes better sense as our biblical destiny rather than viewing this life a waiting room before we go to heaven.
Nearly all Christain denominations formally have a teaching that there will be a 'new earth', sectarian definitions and selective proof texting prevent any unanimous interpretation as to what was meant by various NT authors. 'Endless life' stuck on a planet you can circumnavigate in a week doesn't make sense to anyone who has actually thought about it. For that matter endless life anywhere sounds like the ravings of an egoist worried the universe couldn't continue without them.
11. Witness teaching that God’s sovereignty has been challenged and will be vindicated makes sense of human history, gives an explanation for suffering, and offers the hope that it will end permanently in the future under God’s kingdom.
This was another sectarian effort to justify millennia of failed expectations. The JWs stole the idea from earlier Adventists who called it "Cosmic Controversy" rather than "Universal Sovereignty". Again, anyone who thinks deeply about it knows this is a meaningless post hoc rationalization.
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LV101
Great topic. I had more than one JW say, "oh, you thought the WT/JWs/halls were like what's printed in the WT/Awake/publications!" Oh my -- not even close!
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KerryKing
Politics and religion were not two separate entities in the first century. The Emperor was called the Divine One, Son of God and other such titles. To disagree was considered high treason.
We can't judge first century Christianity, or 3rd or 4th century, by today's standards. It just doesn't work that way. You have to look at the whole context. That means a decent in depth read up of Roman life and living, as a Roman citizen and as a non citizen living within the Roman Empire.