by slimboyfat 62 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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They show love among themselves by not going to war.
They honor Jehovah’s name by using it and giving it prominence.
The Bible uses a variety of names and titles for God, such as Elohim, El Shaddai, Adonai, and Theos (Greek for "God"). Jesus Himself referred to God most often as Father (John 17:1), emphasizing a personal relationship with God rather than focusing on a particular name. If simply using the name "Jehovah" were the key to being the true religion, we would expect the New Testament writers, including Jesus and the apostles, to emphasize the use of this name exclusively. However, they do not.
If using God’s name in a specific form were essential to true worship, it is curious that the New Testament does not contain the Tetragrammaton (YHWH). The New Testament writers used "Kyrios" (Greek for "Lord") when referring to God, reflecting the Greek-speaking context in which they wrote. Even when quoting Old Testament passages that originally contained the Tetragrammaton, they used "Lord" rather than "YHWH."
Many Christian denominations, including Catholic, Orthodox, and Protestant traditions, honor God deeply without using the specific name "Jehovah." They focus on faith in Christ, the sacraments, good works, and a personal relationship with God. To claim that only one group is the "true religion" based solely on the use of a specific name dismisses the profound faith and devotion found across a wide spectrum of Christian belief.
They reject the post-biblical teaching of the Trinity.
They teach the truth about who Jesus is as God’s firstborn and his loyal servant.
They point to God’s kingdom as the only hope for mankind and avoid politics or social movements.
They preach and publish in more languages than any other group.
The number of languages in which a religious group preaches or publishes material is not a valid measure of truth or divine favor. Many religious organizations and secular institutions operate in numerous languages across the globe, but that doesn't automatically make them the bearers of ultimate truth.
Various religious and non-religious organizations operate in multiple languages. The Roman Catholic Church, for example, has global reach and publishes material in many languages, including Bibles, catechisms, and papal encyclicals. Missionary organizations from various Christian denominations also translate and preach in hundreds of languages worldwide, aiming to spread their message.
Similarly, multinational corporations like Google or the United Nations function in many languages across the world, facilitating communication across diverse populations. This global scope does not imply that they hold any religious truth; it simply indicates organizational capacity.
Nowhere in the Bible is the scope of language translation mentioned as a marker for identifying the true faith. Truth in religious practice is associated with following Christ's teachings, living a life of love, and upholding sound doctrine—not with the quantity of languages in which materials are distributed. The early church, for instance, was small and localized, yet was recognized by its faithfulness to Christ's teachings, not by the number of languages it spoke.
Their founder Russell rediscovered basic Bible truths.
The claim that Russell rediscovered "basic Bible truths" assumes that true Christianity had been "lost" or "corrupted" for almost 1900 years, until Russell’s teachings. This idea contradicts Jesus' promise that His Church would endure throughout history. In Matthew 16:18, Jesus said, “The gates of hell shall not prevail against it.” This indicates that the Church founded by Christ would not be overcome by error or cease to exist. Similarly, Matthew 28:20 records Jesus saying, “I am with you always, to the end of the age.” This suggests that true Christianity would never completely disappear, nor would it require "rediscovery."
Galatians 1:8-9 strongly warns against the acceptance of any "other gospel" than the one initially preached by the apostles. If Christianity had indeed been corrupted for nearly two millennia, it would imply that Christ’s own Church had failed, which is inconsistent with Christ's promise to preserve His Church. Russell's new teachings—such as denying the Trinity, the physical resurrection of Jesus, and the eternal punishment of the wicked—represent significant deviations from the historic Christian faith taught by the apostles and upheld for centuries.
Early Christianity, as seen in the New Testament, relied on the authority of the apostles and their successors. Jesus granted Peter and the apostles the authority to lead His Church (Matthew 16:18-19; John 20:21-23). This authority has been passed down through apostolic succession, ensuring continuity in teaching and practice. Russell did not claim apostolic authority; he interpreted Scripture on his own, forming teachings contrary to the consensus of historic Christian doctrine.
Many of the teachings introduced by Russell and later by the Watchtower Society have evolved or been revised over time. Predictions about specific dates for the end of the world (e.g., 1914, 1925, 1975) have repeatedly been shown to be false, causing the organization to shift its interpretations. Deuteronomy 18:20-22 warns that a prophet whose predictions do not come to pass is not to be trusted. This inconsistency raises serious questions about the validity of Russell's teachings as "rediscovered truths."
The core doctrines of Christianity—such as the Trinity, the divinity of Christ, and the resurrection—have been consistently taught from the time of the apostles through the early Church Fathers and throughout Church history. These doctrines are not later innovations but are rooted in Scripture and affirmed by the early Christian councils. Russell’s interpretations differ significantly from this historic consensus.
While Russell may have brought attention to certain Bible topics, the claim that he "rediscovered" the true faith is historically and theologically problematic. The unbroken continuity of Christian doctrine from the apostles to the present, along with the clear warnings in Scripture about altering the gospel, suggests that true Christianity did not disappear after the apostles but has been faithfully transmitted throughout history. The Church that Jesus founded has always been present, preserving the faith as it was once delivered to the saints (Jude 1:3).
JWs have grown from a small group to a global movement.
The growth of a religious movement does not serve as evidence that it is divinely ordained or the bearer of religious truth. There are numerous examples of religious and secular movements that have grown significantly, but that does not prove that they are the "true religion."
Islam, for example, has grown rapidly over the centuries and is now one of the largest religions in the world. Similarly, the Latter-day Saints (Mormons) have expanded from a small group to a global movement. Even secular movements like Communism gained significant global traction in the 20th century. Growth alone is not a reliable indicator of divine favor or truth.
Jesus himself emphasized that the path to salvation would be narrow, and relatively few would find it (Matthew 7:13-14). Moreover, many of the early Christian communities were small and faced persecution; their faithfulness, not their size or expansion, was what mattered. Additionally, history is filled with examples of heretical movements that attracted large followings but did not adhere to biblical truth.
Many organizations can grow rapidly due to various factors like persuasive recruitment strategies, high birth rates, or organizational policies that encourage constant expansion. This can happen regardless of the truthfulness of the belief system. Growth and numerical success can often reflect human organizational skill rather than divine endorsement.
Preaching in many languages and rapid growth are not unique or divinely mandated markers of religious truth. The Bible emphasizes the importance of sound doctrine, adherence to Christ’s teachings, and the fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22-23) as true indicators of faithfulness to God. Therefore, these two factors alone cannot be used to conclusively prove that Jehovah's Witnesses are the true religion. Religious truth should be evaluated based on doctrinal fidelity to scripture, historical continuity, and the overall fruits of the religious community, rather than the number of languages in which it operates or the scale of its growth.
Each JW leader was divinely chosen for their role in advancing God’s purpose.
Their teaching about humans inheriting eternal life on earth makes more sense.
While Jehovah's Witnesses emphasize eternal life on a restored earth for a majority of humanity, traditional Christian beliefs point to both a heavenly and earthly reality. Revelation 21:1-4 speaks of a new heaven and new earth, suggesting a renewal of creation where God will dwell with humanity. However, it does not exclusively promise that all faithful followers will remain on earth.
Jesus also speaks of an eternal reward in heaven. For instance, Matthew 5:12 says, "Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven," suggesting that heaven is the final destination for believers. Similarly, John 14:2-3 records Jesus promising his disciples, "I am going there to prepare a place for you," referring to heaven. These scriptures show that eternal life isn't restricted to the earthly realm but also extends to a heavenly inheritance for believers.
Early Christianity focused more on the hope of the resurrection and eternal communion with God in heaven rather than a purely earthly destiny. The New Testament frequently speaks of the "kingdom of heaven" (e.g., Matthew 13:44), indicating a heavenly focus for salvation. The apostle Paul also emphasized that our citizenship is in heaven (e.g., Philippians 3:20) and that believers would be "with the Lord forever" (e.g., 1 Thessalonians 4:17). The idea of inheriting eternal life on earth isn't emphasized to the exclusion of heaven in early Christian teachings.
Jehovah's Witnesses argue that passages like Psalm 37:29, which says, "The righteous will inherit the land and dwell in it forever," point to a separate "class" for an earthly destiny. However, this interpretation needs to be seen within the broader context of scripture, which also discusses heavenly rewards. The traditional Christian understanding of eternal life embraces both heaven and earth, especially after the final resurrection when heaven and earth are united in God's plan (as seen in Revelation 21).
Jehovah's Witnesses teach that Christ’s kingdom will rule over the earth, with 144,000 going to heaven to reign with Christ and the rest of the faithful living on earth. However, many Christian scholars understand Revelation 20 and the reign of Christ in more symbolic terms, where heaven and earth become one (as in Revelation 21:1-4) rather than maintaining a strict division between the two realms.
Their teaching on God’s sovereignty and vindication makes sense of suffering.
Apostolic Succession and Continuity: The Catholic Church traces its origins directly to Christ and the apostles. Through apostolic succession, the Church maintains a continuous, unbroken line of leadership from St. Peter to the present pope. This ensures the preservation of true doctrine and the authentic interpretation of Scripture.
The Eucharist and the Sacraments: The Catholic Church teaches the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist, which is rooted in Scripture (John 6:51-58) and the teaching of the early Church Fathers. The sacraments are visible signs of God's grace, instituted by Christ, and are essential for the sanctification of believers.
Scripture and Tradition: Catholicism holds that the fullness of God’s revelation is found in both Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition. The Church is the divinely appointed guardian of this deposit of faith, ensuring that it is faithfully transmitted through the centuries (2 Thessalonians 2:15).
Magisterial Authority: The Catholic Church possesses the teaching authority (Magisterium) to interpret Scripture and Tradition. This authority, given by Christ to the apostles (Matthew 16:18-19; 18:18), safeguards the Church from error in matters of faith and morals.
Comprehensive Theology: Catholic teaching provides a coherent and comprehensive worldview that addresses all aspects of human life—spiritual, moral, intellectual, and social. Catholic theology offers deep insights into the nature of God, the purpose of human existence, and the meaning of suffering and salvation.
Historical Evidence: The Catholic Church has maintained doctrinal continuity and unity for over two millennia. The early Church Fathers, who lived closest to the apostles, bear witness to the Catholic understanding of key doctrines like the Trinity, the divinity of Christ, the Eucharist, and the authority of the Church.
In conclusion, while Jehovah’s Witnesses present arguments in favor of their beliefs, they fall short when examined in light of Scripture, history, and Christian theology. The Roman Catholic Church, with its apostolic foundation, sacramental life, and comprehensive teaching, remains the true Church that Christ established.
I will put in reasoning I didn't see for thinking JW had the truth. They didn't celebrate what we know are pagan holidays. Instead of teaching a person goes to heaven or fiery hell when they die, they teach what the Bible says about the condition of the dead. Some of your have mentioned the JW and being persecute by Nazi and this is true;but from what I have gathered ( info can be found on JW facts -letter to Hitler ) at first they wrote and said they held the same values as Hitler, but once they didn't get the desired outcome, they "punched the bear" and therefore brought on a lot of persecution. ( But the JW r/f aren't taught that! )
I do think there is some truth in the teachings of JW, but it is so with other religions. They are still part of Bablyon the Great and we are told to get out.
Then there is this thought that I recently come to realize -saw it in a youtube comment: 2 Tim 3 :5 having a form of godliness, but denying it's power. Have nothing to do with them. ( I used to think this just about individuals, but I think it fits the religions as a whole.) This about all the hidden CSA in religions...that is certainly denying godliness. Not to mention other corruptions church members get involved with.
Broadly, I agree with slim's original post regarding what led him to believe at first that the JWs had "the truth". Much of the same drew me initially, too:
One of the first warning signs to me that all was not as it seemed, apart from the massive 1995 about-face on the generations which many on here have cited as an influence on them, was the appointment of Sam Herd to the GB in 1999.
That's NOT because I disagreed in principle with appointing a black man, but older members may remember, it was around that time in the 1990s that many people in the USA, UK and Europe were beginning to get exercised about ethnic diversity and representation in boardrooms and senior positions of secular organisations.As a result, some were beginning to ask the same question about religious leaders, including the JW GB. It seemed far too coincidental that it was THEN that Herd was appointed. If the Org were truly spirit-led, why would such an appointment happen JUST at the same time "worldly" organisations were putting a spotlight on race in senior roles? Why not before, or later, or not at all (if ethnicity truly doesn't matter)?
This is increasingly noticeable every time new members are appointed to the GB - like just now with Jedele and Rumph - because none of them since are non-white either. Why ONLY Herd so far, and why at precisely the time when secular organisations were beginning to talk about increasing "diversity"?
Also - and in line with worldly race dynamics in the USA and Western Europe especially - how come only a black person (known as Afro-Caribbean in the UK, or African-American in the USA) was selected for appointment? You'll notice that in the worldly racial debates to date, the primary focus and attention is on the rights and representation of black people, not those from the Indian subcontinent, East Asia, or other non-white ethnicities. Likewise, the GB have not appointed anyone else of another ethnicity to date. It was then I realised the influence "fear of man" and "worldly" thinking really has on the actions of the GB.
Since realising that, it's been obvious that many other decisions of the GB have been driven by financial and socio-political motives, especially around the handling of money (Halls, Bethel layoffs, congregation mergers, etc), legal cases over moral issues (CSA and other criminal matters) and the changing of certain long-standing teachings.
A more godly organisation would not defend the indefensible in terms of sex crimes, and would be more compassionate to its members. However, in reality there is no such organisation on earth that is like that, as so many news stories and scandals of the past few decades have shown. Churches, cadet schools, care homes, charities, schools - everywhere there are reports of sexual misconduct and abusive behaviour.
As a result, I don't think the existence of such things completely rules out an organisation being used by God, but I do believe it means such an organisation is "dirty" and so still in need of a severe shake-up. The same thing happened in the past with the nation of Israel and even with some individuals and congregations in the first century. They got too selfish, too arrogant and assured of their own position in relation to God and behaved as they saw fit, but got punished for it.
The evidence from scripture is that "judgement begins with the house of God", so I would expect to see any organisation claiming to represent God be the first to suffer a "wake-up call" if it's not up to standard, and that's what we're seeing today with many organisations that claim to be Christian - including the JWs - starting to suffer losses and setbacks.
For the GB, this is despite their attempts to claim the org is completely separate and has already been "cleansed" and is in "good standing". There are so many examples of choices and events that indicate to me that the GB collectively are still facing a "wake-up call". That's why I strongly disagree with a lot of the recent comments in the org about JWs already being in the "spiritual paradise", living "the best life ever", etc, since that's blatantly not true. They are simply platitudes to placate the R&F and discourage them from asking questions about things that are still not right in the Org.
Their founder, Russell
The various Bible Student groups would vehemently dispute that statement. According to them, CT Russell did not found the Jehovahs Witnesses. Rather, this was the work of a thug by the name of Joseph Rutherford, who had earlier seized control of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society. Very little of Charles Russell’s ideas are still taught by the JWs. Little wonder that the copious written works of Russell ceased publication a long, long time ago!
Looking back, for me it was realizing that evolution was a fact of nature…
…and that the Org used misdirection, obfuscation, and semantics to argue against it, solely for ideological reasons.
If you have to cheat to defend your beliefs, what’s that say about your beliefs?
Yes, I read The Blind Watchmaker in 1999 on the banks of the river Ness and it convinced me evolution is likely true. The book even mentions JWs a couple of times and their misunderstanding or misrepresentation of evolution. I still think evolution is probably true but it’s not as slam dunk as I thought it was then. If evolution is true then it doesn’t necessarily point to a purely materialist reality in any case (see Mind and Cosmos by Thomas Nagel) and might actually be a good argument in favour of God’s existence. (See the argument from evolution by Alvin Plantinga)
Rivergang, I would agree that Bible Students would vehemently disagree that Russell founded Jehovah's witnesses and that Rutherford did in 1931 when he renamed Bible Students as Jehovah's Witnesses. I had talked to many and attended their meetings and had meals with them. Jws today do not know the WT history, despite the Proclaimers book which artfully peppers their history in many places, so jws don't make the connections. But the Bible Students do publish Russell's teachings still.
1. They show love among themselves by not going to war. Not killing your fellow believers in any circumstances, including war, would seem to be a very basic requirement for true Christianity.
But then what about the Mennonites, the Amish, and Quakers? What about so many Buddhists? JW's do not corner the market on pacifist believers in a god.
2. They honour Jehovah’s name by using it and giving it prominence. Again this would seem to be a very basic requirement for Christians who are said to be called out of the nations as “a people for his name”.
So many arguments here. Let's just go with disagreements on God's name. You would think God would clear that up.
3. They reject the post biblical teaching of the Trinity which uses language that is not found in the Bible and distances people from God by making him appear incomprehensible.
4. They teach the truth about who Jesus is as God’s firstborn and his loyal servant.
I guess if you insist on the Bible being from God, so many teachings are from Man. Again, you would think God would clear that up.
5. They point to God’s kingdom as the only hope for mankind as Jesus and the early Christian’s did and don’t get involved in politics or social or protest movements.
That seems a bit overreaching for a religion to declare that is what God taught. It takes a whole lot of explaining to convince JW students that the Bible says that.
6. They preach and publish in more languages than any other group in history, fulfilling the Bible prophecy about preaching to all the earth in the last days.
I dunno about "preach" so the comment adds "publish." Catholicism is taught worldwide. Christianity has spread throughout the world through mostly Catholic missionary work. I know about "rice Christians" but facts are facts and spin is spin.
7. Their founder Russell rediscovered basic Bible truths at a time when technology was in place to facilitate the preaching work worldwide.
Total nonsequitur to this discussion. But I will say, if someone took advantage of the internet properly 20 years ago, they could make such a claim.
8. Jehovah’s Witnesses have increased from a tiny number in one country to be a great crowd of worshippers from all nations of the world.
And what of their decrease now? Can't have one fact and ignore the other.
9. Each of the JW leaders has been just what was needed at the time for Jehovah to accomplish his purpose.
No. What about the ones removed?
10. Witness teaching about humans looking forward to endless life on earth makes better sense as our biblical destiny rather than viewing this life a waiting room before we go to heaven.
Neither. My opinion. This life is what we have, so do good with NOW. Stop living for a fantasy of a future. Love family, don't shun them. Be good to each other.
11. Witness teaching that God’s sovereignty has been challenged and will be vindicated makes sense of human history, gives an explanation for suffering, and offers the hope that it will end permanently in the future under God’s kingdom.
It only gives a heavily opinionated explanation. But similarly to the last answer I gave, it's a fantasy of a future. Work on helping the suffering now.
OTWO - yes, so many arguments! Do tell/carry on - love your comments^^.
