Jesus and the two criminals dying beside him..... (page 4)

crinklestein

This is the one and only thing that hit me like a ton of bricks when I was starting to question things. This proves to me that there are no works that could be done to earn your salvation. Why waste away your life proving what a good little witness you are when a theif can gain entrance to the kingdom of God instantly before he dies by simply professing his faith in Jesus? What works did the theif do? NONE. How did he get forgiven? By asking Jesus and showing acceptance of him as his savior. BANG! THATS IT!

A Paduan

What works did the theif do? NONE. How did he get forgiven? By asking Jesus and showing acceptance of him as his savior. BANG! THATS IT!

he didn't eat the swine, but rather, identified (believed) God to be just - so his soul had been exhalted - Jesus wanted him to know that

JosephMalik

Crinklestein,

It may sound that way if only this one text is considered. But the thing that will bring salvation to the majority of mankind is not religion but something quite simple. All that is required is that they be decent human beings for the most part. And this thief was used to emphasize this point for us. At first both of them reviled Jesus along with the High priest, scribes and elders like this: Mt 27:43 "He trusted in God; let him deliver him now, if he will have him: for he said, I am the Son of God. 44 The thieves also, which were crucified with him, cast the same in his teeth." But the one thief eventually thought better of it and came around and supported our Lord. This quality of decency that this thief possessed came through and it is this very quality that is stated by our Lord as the standard by which most humans will be classed as sheep. Mt 25: 36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. Our eventual life in the kingdom is dependent upon such qualities and we are expected to have them.

Joseph

LittleToe

Joseph:
I think I disagree with just about everything you've written in this thread!!!!

It's not very often I can be so unequivocable, but your comments, all of them, do it for me!

gumby

LT,

Don't you at least agree with his last post? It wasn't so bad.

Gumby

LittleToe

Not even his last post.
Where's the activity of "God" in that? Where is there even a comment on "connecting with the Divine"?
IMHO the beauty of the Christian message is that it isn't all up to man, but God has more than met us half way, and remains willing to do so...

gumby

The activity in god was doing as the theif did.........trusting in the divine.....as was shown in the post.

Isn't doing good to others our main goal? If one doesn't give glory to the correct divine one because of lack of understanding......will not the divine one reward them for their goodness and their heartfelt effort of trying to please the one they believed to be divine?...........................Damn......I just felt like a chineeze philosopher there for a minute!

Gumby

LittleToe

IMHO - no. Simply being a good person, without making that "connection" is not sufficient.
(That's not an argument for any particular faith-path, btw)

Taking the thief as an example - the only "good deed" that appears to be attributed to his whole life is that he verbally took pity on Jesus.

It appears that he did connect with the Divine, though.

Now, was the thief the exception to the rule, or is this an example of what is really required when stripped down to it's essence?

My personal theology on this has it that "love" (of God and fellowman, etc.) comes spontaneously from the presence of such a connection.

Narkissos

One very obvious thing to say (which has not yet been said in this thread, unless I missed it) is that the whole episode is sheer Lukan creation. Luke embroiders the Markan account about both thieves insulting Jesus so as to make one of them a kind of "repentant sinner" as he loves them. Saying "first they both insulted him, eventually one of them repented (and Luke is the only one to know about it)" is a desperate attempt at harmonization of divergent stories which were never meant to be read together... (I also remember the WT once mentioned "four thieves", so as to have two insulting him as in Matthew-Mark and still another one in Paradise. Silly as it may seem, I have recently heard the same idea from a Pentecostal pastor)...

Peacefulpete: this time I find your chronology very conservative!

peacefulpete

That's why I made the disclaimer. lol

Jesus and the two criminals dying beside him.....

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