Witnesses coming Saturday... I need HELP!!!!

by Globetrotter 113 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Will Power

  I agree 100% Storm.

  "Loyalty to the organization is more important than the truth." which is what an Elder told me (non-jw) to my face as my husband (new study) stepped to his side of the line in the sand.

  No matter how many times I've redrawn my line - - to give him more wiggle room - he chooses the other side.

  A mind is a terrible thing to waste but the damage to the heart is truly painful - All this to live forever in the flesh on earth. - Please show me this in that book the bible.

  (((globetrotter))) I sincerely hope things work out for the best, whatever that may be. I am still in the anger stage of mourning the death of our 20 yr marriage, even tho I am also accepting these things I cannot change.

  Will
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  Sam Beli

  Greetings GT,

  I sure do not know if your wife is like my parents (real "Society folks"), but just in case, please allow me to offer an idea. My parents are not confident people. They assume that most others are smarter and more capable than they are; hence the leaning on the WTS to tell them what to believe. Your wife very well may believe that the guys in Brooklyn are much smarter than she is, and closer to God as well. Therefore, what they say is gospel in her view.

  My own wife has been a bit that way, but she has come a long way toward gaining confidence. One of the things that has helped her to assert herself and to rely on her own opinion has been the constant praise I have directed her way. She genuinely is smart and I relentlessly tell her so. It has taken years, but she now is even aggressive at times in sticking to her opinion about a matter.

  If your children are very smart, as you state, chances are that she is smart too (even if much of the kids smarts came from you). Keep reminding her that she is smart and that she can "see" for herself the hypocrisy of the WTS joining the UN when you and I cannot join the YMCA. I would not try to undermine all of her confidence in the WTS yet, but if she could admit ? even if just to herself ? one bit of uncertainty about their credibility, more might follow later.

  One more thought; if you buy into the idea above, it might be best to begin the praise in other areas, not the WTS stuff. Otherwise, she will see your tactics as a transparent ploy to turn her against the WTS. Maybe your relationship is too far gone for this tactic. I offer it for what it is worth.

  Best wishes for your future and that of your children. If you could save your wife from life long worship of the WTS, that would be great too.

  Sam
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  xjw_b12

  Wow. Finally had time to read this post from beginning to now.

  Awesome job GT. I can't believe that you were able to blind side them with the UN debacle, then tieing it into the YMCA membership. I figured all of the elders, must have been somewhat aware of that one by now. Obviously not.

  If the opportunity arises, try the Generation definition that they changed in the Awake mag, in 1995. I shocked an elder with that one. Worked quite well. seeing "God cannot tell a lie"

  xjw_b12 "Millions Now Living Will Never Die Know"
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  johnny cip

  GT: You did a fine job to controling the talk. that is truely a jw weak spot not being able to lead the dance.it seemed like every question you asked set them up like bowling pin,s.. the ymca was a great play and there is a 1981 wt that says." any christian that joins an org. that is not acceptable to jehovah, has da'ed him self from jehovah etc." so in that instance the gb da'ed them selves from god by joining the u.n. i also hope you showed them the u.n. info about how you don't need to be an ngo to get a library card, also the fact that any info in the u.n. library is also avalable at the new york city main library branch at 42th street. the 144k idea was great also and if they was to talk about it more i would ask them to bring the kingdom interliner tranlation with them, so you can show them in the greek the 144k and the great crowd are in the same place in rev 7 the greek word (naos) spelling?..but i would try to leave the bible out.. as for the word jehovah . it was made up by a 12th century francesian (catholic)? monk named raymondo martini, in spain.in latin. and that info is in the wt insights book vol2? i don't know far you went with them on the 1914-1918 stuff. but you did get them to commit to it. so now ,it's up to them to back it up . at this point i don't think they will really want to talk with you much more. but if they do make sure you control the next talk the same way you did the first. if they bring you an answer about the u.n. i would tell them to leave the info with you , so you can check it first for truth!!! and take over the talk with your next move..the best part about this whole thing , is the way you have shown your children , that dad ain't no dummy, and did his homework and exposed the wt as the liars that they are. since your kids seem to be open to the things you find out about the wt. i would continue to expose them at every turn. remember once you have these jw's back on their heels they fall quick. wishing you and your family well ............john
• 

  Globetrotter

  Gary, I wonder if indeed they are doing that, if you are being facetious, or if you are being over zealous. I don't know you well enough yet. Is it possible that they left, felt like they were ambushed, and chose to ignore the UN stuff, never to give it another thought?

  I wonder what their conversation was like in the car?
• 

  garybuss

  
  
  
  Globe, I do wish you well. I hope your wife sees you as right and quits the Witnesses and works with you to undo the damage already done to the children so they may have a practical education and be prepared for life.
  
  Am I skeptical your strategy will net that result? Yes! It's just from years of experience of watching and working with this cult. I don't know your wife nor do I know what she will do, but it's pretty predictable what the group will do. You have a marriage problem and you are addressing that by trying to change a cult by exposing it's apologists to information designed to create a conflict. Yet you know their strategy of member retention is to eliminate people exposing members to unfavorable information about the group.
  
  I am not being facetious about the application of the doctrine of absolute endangerment of spirituality. I have seen them apply it over and over. I have seen elders show up at a Witness's home with a moving van and load up virtually all the furniture while the husband was away at work, and move the family into an apartment that the elders paid the rent for. Then when there is a divorce and child custody battle, I watch the publishing corporation send in attorneys paid for by the corporation to defeat the non group member in court.
  
  The best way to deal with a problem in a family is to deal with the family and isolate high control group members from their group while that is happening. That's my advise.
  
  You aren't gonna get any attaboys from me for colliding with two JW's in front of your family. If that strategy has worked for anybody, I wish they would post their story here because I am not aware of any.
  
  I may be over zealous but I'm sitting here in my chair next to my wife who left the group, and you are doing exchanges with elders. I know I can't influence you because I haven't been able to do it thus far so I'm not too worried about steering you wrong.
  
  Have you ever been in a courtroom with a Watch Tower Corporation paid attorney in a child custody case? I have. If you ever want to feel helpless, try doing legal battle with an opponent with a billion tax free dollars in the bank.
  
  In your original post, I got the idea the marriage was virtually over and you had given up on saving it and this confrontation with the elders was your way to kick the door on the say out. Did I read that wrong?
  
  You wrote,
  
  "Am I asking for help in saving my marraige? No. In my mind, it's pretty much over, and in fact, I want it to be over if I am to live my life with more of the same. This is as much a validation point for me as anything else, but if there is any hope of getting her out, I'll do it and see what is left to build upon."
  What did you mean by that paragraph?
  
  My focus is on the marriage and the family, your focus is on the Watch Tower Publishing Corporation. I happen to think it is not possible to get someone to think by going on the attack against ideas and groups they cherish. All that does is alienate them further.
  
  I hope it all works out the way you want, GaryB
  
  
  
  
  
  
• 

  AnnOMaly

  I agree wholeheartedly with Sam Beli - praise - a terrific approach. You're one smart cookie

  Globetrotter, I'm relieved it went well and kept friendly - well executed and methodical. I'm impressed. (I'd be surprised if they turn nasty on you - they didn't sound the type)
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  kgfreeperson

  I don't know--that article from Awake seems almost in direct response to globetrotter's conversation with the elders. I really was taken aback when I read it. So I'm afraid Gary is exactly right and it will depend on whether or not globetrotter's wife will be so taken aback by the Watchtower's response that she will reconsider her position. Globetrotter doesn't need to change the Watchtower--only his wife. But I do think Gary's prediction of what advice she'll be given is dead on. I wish it were not so and I will be delighted to hear it is not so!
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  FreeWilly

  KG,

  Did I miss something? that article from Awake seems almost in direct response to globetrotter's conversation ....

  Are you talking about a recent awake that addresses the UN debacle? If so could you direct me to it?

  Globetrotter,

  Keep us informed, this is great stuff. I'd bet heavy cash that they try to quickly divert or dismiss the whole UN thing. Stick with it till you get a straight answer. We wish you the best
• 

  FreeWilly

  Any updates globetrotter?