Witnesses coming Saturday... I need HELP!!!!

by Globetrotter 113 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  gypsywildone

  Globetrotter, you have not taken up too much space. IMHO, the space is better allocated to this than to fluff & political rants that seem to proliferate this board lately.

  GaryB, my heart goes out to you. On many points I agree with you, the marriage is the nucleus of the family. It is like the hub of a wheel, & the children are like spokes, coming out from the CENTER.

  There is no room for religious fanaticism & cult mind control in that center.

  I would not be in a relationship with a spouse that did not put ME first & foremost. It is an emotional affair, you are correct. This alligience to a publishing company is an emotional abandonment of the spouse. The emotional investment is not with the wife, or the family. And the jws are predators. It is their life's work. They spend hours at meetings perfecting the art. Ignore them at your peril.

  I have never even heard of a marriage that was very happy that was half jw, half not. As mobbie said, there is no common ground. There is nothing in common. That is true when anyone becomes imbalanced. Any kind of fanatacism alienates others, especially a spouse. Anyone constantly spouting an "ism" wether it is a religion, anti-governmentism, materialism, whatever becomes out of focus, loses perspective. I just cannot fathom a marriage with someone who's every conversation is geared toward "preaching the good news". I cannot imagine a marriage to someone who's only use for people is to convert, convert, convert.

  Globetrotter, it is not horrible things that you say. You've no reason to feel guilty. A person who is merely a puppet for a publishing company commandeers very little respect indeed. But please do NOT alienate your children. Be there for them, they need you desperately! You can help them thorugh love & education. Education about cults & how they work. Education about freedom. You can plant the seed in their minds that opens their eyes. At times they may treat you harshly, it is the mind control. but you can be their rock in a sea of abuse. You can show them through loving kindness that there are many roads to take, & they can accomplish anything they set their minds to. You can see to it that they get educated while the WBTS is saying jehoover is going to kill anyone not a jw, so that they succeed.

  Do keep posting, we are here & many have been there or lived through the dysfunction.

  3 cheers for mobbie!
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  garybuss

  
  
  Ann, I am glad you have found a soft and accepting strategy that has worked for you. For me, a mild approach got me more losses. In my opinion, the Jehovah's Witnesses are not a religion. They are predators. They don't make converts. They take hostages. . . . and they don't return them alive.
  
  If the mother of my children will not give me first place in her life then I will not share my roof, my income or my time with her. My life is run on my terms. Nothing really worked for me until I accepted that is the way it has to be for me.
  
  I tried to live as the walkaway spouse to a practicing Jehovah's Witness. Tuesday nights I sat alone while she went to meetings. Thursday nights I sat alone while she went to meetings. Often Friday or Saturday evenings there were "get togethers" that I was not welcome at. I sat home alone while she went to those. Saturday morning was "service" and I sat home alone. Sunday afternoon was meetings. I sat home alone. When she was home we had no rapport or meaningful communication. We could not talk about religion, current events, philosophy, or science. We did not agree on the importance of education for our children and the importance of pragmatic living.
  
  I will never live this way again. I have closed the book on those who have rejected me. They are out of my life forever. If they ever leave the Witness cult, they are not welcome here. GaryB
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
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  Globetrotter

  Whatever behavior you want to stop, you ?starve.? Don?t ?feed? it with a good or bad reaction. No reaction, if possible.

  No advice on the Saturday confrontation with the JWs - but if someone is trying to get someone 'out' - the best way to do it may not be to confront them with 'issues', but to take a vacation .

  That's right - a vacation. Be sure to go where there are NO KH's - or 5 meetings a week??.Make it a three or four weeker - the longer the better?? get the other person away from the 5 meetings a week brainwashing that they are now exposed to. The less brainwashing an individual has - the clearer they are able to see things for what they are.

  I copied this because this is great advice, IMO! Don?t talk against the Org (that would be 'feeding' it) ? just take her out for some fun! As often and as far away from witnesses as possible. This is ?feeding? the behaviors you want to encourage (being away from the JWs). ( Might be good for the marriage, too.)

  Engage in as many activities outside of the Witness social circle as possible. Be sure you are more fun than the KH (not hard).

  Again, I agree that this is key. ?Feed? being away from JWs. Make sure these activities are fun and make sure it is easy for her to do these things?

  Because she was not baptized, the elders would not supply her with the letter of support. She was more pissed off than upset and said she would have nothing to do with the JWs after that. She filled out her application with no reservations/objections and proceeded to pass her interview.

  Wow. After reading that, I think you actually could have some hope here! She sounds like me.

  Lisa, the comments are contradictory to the fact. Doing NOTHING resulted in where we are now. Feeding being away does nothing. She'll only go back, when we return from 'vacation'. After all, she went back after 4 or 5 years. Besides, she wouldn't let me schedule anything like that, and we can't just take a 3 month European vacation.

  Your last statement above misses the point. I feel deceived that she said this, yet went back.
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  lisaBObeesa

  Globe,
  

  Well, those were just my thoughts and ideas and maybe how I might try to handle it. If they are not helpful, you should just disregard them without a second thought. Take what you like and leave the rest, as they say!
  

  She was more pissed off than upset and said she would have nothing to do with the JWs after that.

  Your last statement above misses the point. I feel deceived that she said this, yet went back

  I am sorry I missed your point about that. I see where it would be upsetting that she would say that she was upset with the JWs, would have nothing to do with them, and then later she would change her mind. You must feel betrayed. I still think my point is valid however: this story shows that your wife is not 'cut out' for the JW life, really.

  I wrote the post before I read some of your later posts. From those, it seems like you have already made up your mind and your relationship is quite broken from living in a painful situation for a long time. Is your marriage already over? If so, then why even bother with the elder meeting?

  And if it is not already over and you still want to be married, I really hope you guys can find a way to work it out.

  Regards,

  -LisaBOBeesa
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  razorMind

  I know with me I can only visit my relatives for no more than a week before I have to get outta there. It starts as only a minor nuisance but after awhile it becomes intolerable. If you are a householder you can always dismiss them if they come to your door. But if you are in the same household, you are a captive to their ideology, paranoia and pessimism. Conversations are often angled to reinforce their belief system. Life "in this system" can never be too good. Non JW's can never be fully trusted. Despite most things getting better in our world, JW's keep everything negative before them and blow it out of proportion. The cup is always half empty unless it pertains to the Society, kingdom hall or preaching. This dim world view can be stifling and the servitude robs enormous time and flexibility from relationships. As a non-believer, you are always regarded as a slacker, weak, proud, or materialistic to one degree or another.

  YES.

  This thread should be required reading for any normal "worldly" person, involved romantically with a Jehovah's Witness. They need to be informed and educated about this religion/cult before making any important decisions.

  YES.
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  Globetrotter

  Well, those were just my thoughts and ideas and maybe how I might try to handle it. If they are not helpful, you should just disregard them without a second thought. Take what you like and leave the rest, as they say!

  Not a problem Lisa. And I do thank you. At this point in my life, I am quite angry about the situation. And while my posts probably (certainly?) do reflect anger and frustration, I'm not being condescending in my responses back to you...( just so you know. It is sometimes hard to discern the tone of a post.) (So you don't think I'm continuing anything resembling a debate with you, the rest of my post is not really directed at you Lisa, but rather just comments and observations.)
  

  Is your marriage already over? If so, then why even bother with the elder meeting?

  I honestly don't know the answer to the first question, though I think I am closer (to knowing). I went through most of these same feelings at this current level 3 years ago and 5 years ago. Nothing seems to change. While I do not hold quite the same level of disdain that Garybuss does, I can certainly see how he got there. (And I don't fault you at all Gary!) As FreeWilly pointed out

  But if you are in the same household, you are a captive to their ideology, paranoia and pessimism. Conversations are often angled to reinforce their belief system. Life "in this system" can never be too good. Non JW's can never be fully trusted. Despite most things getting better in our world, JW's keep everything negative before them and blow it out of proportion... This dim world view can be stifling

  and Concerned Mama

  but I don't know of any JW/non-JW mixed marriages that are full of love and harmony. Love, yes, but not harmony. How long the love can last under those circumstances remains to be seen.

  The word 'dysfucntion' keeps popping up, and I used it myself. It is so true. The society's outlook and indoctrination permeate and infiltrate almost every single subject. Any topic of conversation or intellectual debate eventually has elements of the watchtower creeping in. It eventually (over time - years) becomes futile to even attempt a conversation that would extend beyond the mundane, for fear (and realization of that fear) that the negative influences of the watchtower will rear their ulgy head. Intellectual stimulation becomes close to non-existent, and so, one goes on 'automatic', not living life to its fullest, and any thought of living life to its fullest is consciously pushed out. Gary, is this what it was like when you were a "walkaway spouse"? Does this sound familiar or is it just me?

  and Mobsta

  Again, when your lifemate holds an entirely different world view than you, it is extremely difficult to find ANY common ground with which to find something positive and hopeful

  Reiteration of exactly where I find myself. It is very hard. Going through a divorce is not something I relish. If I can achieve the slightest doubt upon which to build, then the meeting with the elders will serve a positive purpose. If not, then I am faced with making some hard decisions. Like I said, can't emotionally invest anything more into this. And acquiescence to going on 'automatic' for the rest of my life is something which I refuse to do.
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  Globetrotter

  I cannot cancel the meeting, or shall I say that canceling will be seen a bad form, and a sign of weakness. As far as topics to discuss go, I beleive I will stick to two, neither of which require the bible. One is the UN, the other I happen to like is Johnny Cip's:

  here's a pretty full proof, arguement...with out using the bible. .ask the jw's is it true that jesus did an inspection of all religions from 1914-1918. then choose the wt in 1919 after rutherford got out of jail. this is a current teaching in all the wt study books. once you get them to commit to this. say ok i'll study with you 3 times a week. but i only want to study wt books printed till 1918. because since jesus did a four year inspection and choose the wt on their pure worship. I want to be just as happy as jesus was in 1918.remember only wt books till 1918.,you will study. Now the ball is in thier court and none of them have ever read these old books. but here you have put them in a hole . tell them only to come back when they bring wt books till 1918 .or thier present teaching that jesus choose them at the time is nonsense. and if it's true jesus choose the wt in 1919 or 1918 then get out the old books, or they are just giving you lip service.. if you keep to this point and tell them to keep thier bible's closed till you can feel like jesus did in 1919 then they are waisting their time with a teaqching they can't back up...... good luck john
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  lisaBObeesa

  At this point in my life, I am quite angry about the situation. And while my posts probably (certainly?) do reflect anger and frustration, I'm not being condescending in my responses back to you...(

  Hey, it is absolutely cool?OK? I know you are upset, and understandably so, and while my pride was a teeny tiny injured by your response, I quickly recovered! I am sorry you could detect a bit of my feelings in my response, as I thought I had not let them into the post.

  I will be thinking of you on Saturday! I really hope you can get a doubt in there!

  Good luck,

  -LisaBObeesa
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  marriedtodamob

  oops! double post! see below...
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  marriedtodamob

  "Reiteration of exactly where I find myself. It is very hard. Going through a divorce is not something I relish. If I can achieve the slightest doubt upon which to build, then the meeting with the elders will serve a positive purpose. If not, then I am faced with making some hard decisions. Like I said, can't emotionally invest anything more into this. And acquiescence to going on 'automatic' for the rest of my life is something which I refuse to do."

  ((((((((GT)))))))) Isn't it nice to have folks to talk to who know EXACTLY what you are feeling and going through? I tell ya, this board is AWESOME!!! I would not have been able to make the decisions I have within this past year if I had not found these wonderful LOVING people. That's right...LOVING. A FAR CRY from what I saw and was exposed to when I actually ATTENDED some meetings and functions with my DF'd JW hubby, let me tell you!

  I think now, since we have hashed this out a bit and I have these words of yours above and my own reflections to draw upon here, that YES INDEED you DO need to meet with those elders. I don't "relish" the idea of you doing so anymore than if it were me, but I think at this point in your journey you actually will be able to come to a much more clear resolution of what needs to be done here in your life and that of your children, and of course your marriage.

  Whatever you do from here on out GT, I and (WE THE PEOPLE OF THIS BOARD if I may be so bold...) BELIEVE IN YOU.

  Remember that the insidious disease is THE CULT that controls these people, not the people themselves. Many of THEM are now HERE, or on their way...

  Do the absolute best that you can GT-that is all you can do! Let us know how it goes-you are certainly in my thoughts and prayers!

  mobbie

  PS thank you Gypsy for the 3 cheers-I hand them off to GT!!!