So now I hear You Know saying that only a small percentage of JW's will actually be saved? So the number making it into Armageddon will be much less than 6 million?
Fascinating.
Joel
LATEST INSTALLMENT OF APOSTATE "DOOM"...
by You Know 93 Replies latest jw friends
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You Know
What you know could fill a thimble. What you don't know could fill an ocean. / You Know
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Seeker
Answer Farkel's question, You Know: "Yes" or "No."
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Copernicus
Isn’t it amazing how YK can pontificate profusely over the most mundane of subjects, yet he can’t answer a simple yes or no question?
YK said: “No surprise here. As a matter of fact I called Bethel a few days ago and was discussing that very verse with some prominent brother there.”
Are we name dropping now? I am so impressed with the obvious degree of influence you exert in the hallowed halls of bethel. Is your phone number on their speed dial? Did you mention your posting here while you where at it, or did you pass by that opportunity?
Continuing: “There's no question that a massive purge is going to take place when Jehovah God rocks the heaven and the earth one last time.”
I heard this kind of crap circulating for years before I left the org. It’s a cyclic thing, every couple of decades or so. All it represents is the ongoing attempt by the “faithful” to rationalize the gradual (though probably accelerating) collapse of the WT world. The GB doesn’t have to wait on Jehovah to rock anything, their own inane antics and teachings are completely sufficient to drive away anyone who isn’t braindead and hopelessly enmeshed in their web – without the need for any divine intervention.
Yes, JW’s are rationalizers par excellence. They can explain anything in the [new] light of reinterpretation. In a few years from now, when they’ll be 10 or 15 left in a congregation, we can be sure that the self-aggrandizement will be flowing like Niagara falls; while they kill time waiting for Jehovah’s next purge.
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bjc2012
You Know,
We have several major points of differences. I believe that apostasy is a national problem, that is, the entire nation is guilty of apostasy. You seem to be leaning toward just some in the organization being guilty. I believe that the great tribulation is Jehovah’s way of disciplining his name people because of their apostasies. In order to accomplish this, He brings the ‘king of the North’ against this people. As Jehovah states at Isaiah 10:6: “Against an apostate nation I shall send him and against the people of my fury I shall issue a command to him, to take much spoil and to take much plunder and to make it a trampling place like the clay of the streets.” Isaiah 9:16, 17 further says: “And those who are leading this people on prove to be the ones causing them to wander; and those of them who are being led on, the ones who are being confused. That is why Jehovah will not rejoice even over their young men, and upon their widows he will have no mercy; because ALL of them are apostates and evildoers and every mouth is speaking senselessness. In view of all this his anger has not turned back, but his hand is stretched out still.”
The problem is not with a few JWs, but it is the ENTIRE nation that is in trouble. Otherwise, there is no point to Zechariah’s prophesy recorded in chapter 13 verses 8 and 9, which reads: “And it must occur in all the land, is the utterance of Jehovah, that two parts of it are what will be cut off and expire; and as for the third part, it will be left remaining in it. And I shall certainly bring the third part through the fire; and I shall actually refine them as in the refining of silver; and examine them as in the examining of gold. It, for its part, will call upon my name, and I, for my part, will answer it. I will say, ‘It is my people,’ and it, in its turn, will say, ‘Jehovah is my God.” The fire that the third part is being brought through is the ‘great tribulation.’ It is Jehovah’s discipline for apostasy or idolatry. Two thirds of this organization will prove to be unworthy because they will refuse to repent of their idolatries and accept Jehovah’s discipline. They will therefore be ‘cut off from the land.’
Unless I am a part of the ‘king of the north’ I will have no part in administering this discipline. I’m not sure that I understand just what you are describing using terms such as ‘blood-fest.’ The great tribulation is not the end of life as we know it on this planet. I think that you are confusing it with something else, what I don’t know. It is simply Jehovah’s way of getting his people straight, bringing them into a ‘righteous condition’ (Isaiah 60:21) in order that he may use them to gather the people from the nations, that is, to fulfill Isaiah 2:2-4, before he ‘brings to nothing all governments and authority and power.’ (1 Corinthians 15:24)
I know that you are aware of the problems the natural Israelites had as far as their obedience to Jehovah. When Jehovah removed them from their land, it was not because of the disobedience of a few among them. No, the entire nation was guilty of sin and so they were all disciplined, that is those who survived that destruction. And that was the point Daniel was making when he said the words that are recorded at Daniel 9:3-6. He said, in part, “we (the nation) have sinned and done wrong and acted wickedly and rebelled; and there has been a turning aside from your commandments and from your judicial decisions. And we have not listened to your servants the prophets, who have spoken in your name to our kings, our princes and our forefathers and to all the people of the land.” Daniel admitted that this was a national problem even though Daniel personally may not have been guilty of this sin. And this is the same confession that every Jehovah’s Witness today will have to make in order to be considered worthy of being saved, or declared righteous, at the end of this disciplinary period, the great tribulation, to be administered by Jehovah in the near future.
The blessings that you describe will be poured out upon a repentant, humble, disciplined people. The numbers certainly will be nothing like they were before the discipline as 2/3s of them will have been cast off. But that is nothing to Jehovah. He can increase their numbers a thousand fold. And he will. Isaiah 60:22 say so.
Of course, I know why you would not agree with the above statements. If the whole nation is in apostasy, then, either there are no anointed in the organization or if there are, they are in big trouble with Jehovah. And the most logical conclusion is that there are none there. Anointed individuals would never have led the organization into apostasy or idolatry.
What do you mean that the ‘demon hordes are going to go crazy?’ They are already crazy. If you don’t think so, just check out this next war. Again the great tribulation is not for the world of mankind, it is specifically designed for Jehovah’s Witnesses by Jehovah.
bjc
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You Know
I believe that the great tribulation is Jehovah’s way of disciplining his name people because of their apostasies. In order to accomplish this, He brings the ‘king of the North’ against this people.
There are a number of reasons for it, one of which is to correct and discipline. But, the king of the North is said to come into the Land of the Decoration and eventually actually become a squatter in the domain of spiritual Israel. That of course provokes Michael to take care of business. So, whatever sins God's people and organization are guilty of will be dealt with by the punishing blow delivered during the tribulation.
The problem is not with a few JWs, but it is the ENTIRE nation that is in trouble.
I agree that the entire nation is in trouble. I have written a lot about that. But that doesn't mean that everyone is an apostate. The tribulation will be the means to seperate the wheat and the weeds and the sheep and the goats. Until this moment the has been no clear seperation. The Watchtower has served as the dragnet of Jesus' parable. When once it has served its purpose it is then discarded and the catch is seperated and handled accordingly.
Unless I am a part of the ‘king of the north’ I will have no part in administering this discipline. I’m not sure that I understand just what you are describing using terms such as ‘blood-fest.’
The tribulation will be a time of terror and anarchy as well as a time of totalitarian tyranny. That's the time when Jesus said that children will deliver up the parents to be killed. The seething hatred of apostates will be unleashed against the faithful. That's what I mean by "blood-fest."
Daniel admitted that this was a national problem even though Daniel personally may not have been guilty of this sin.And this is the same confession that every Jehovah’s Witness today will have to make in order to be considered worthy of being saved, or declared righteous, at the end of this disciplinary period, the great tribulation, to be administered by Jehovah in the near future.
I don't disagree with that at all. That's good insight on your part. There are entire prophetic books that go into that in greater depth, including Lamentations as well. I am reluctant to delve in that that sort of thing in this forum for obvious reasons, but yeah you are right on the mark with that. Maybe we are just talking about a semantical difference over apostasy. After all, back in the 11th chapter of Daniel it mentions how apostasy is introduced into the organization by the king of the North, but how those knowing Jehovah "act effectively."
Of course, I know why you would not agree with the above statements.
But I do agree with your comments, I just won't go so far as use the word "apostate."
If the whole nation is in apostasy, then, either there are no anointed in the organization or if there are, they are in big trouble with Jehovah.
It is the latter. Jehovah's discipline is evidence of that, because as the Scripture show, whomever he receives as a son is scourged.
And the most logical conclusion is that there are none there. Anointed individuals would never have led the organization into apostasy or idolatry.
Here's where your reasoning jumps the track. Read the rest of that verse in the 13th chapter of Zechariah. After God's discipline Jehovah reaffirms his love saying: "It is my people." If they were not his people he would never take the trouble to refine them in the fire so that they emerge as gold. Too, read the letters of Christ to the 7 congregations in Revelation. They had some big problems, apostasy in the congregations was mentioned several times. But those individuals who were faithful under test were promised that they would be blessed. That that prophecy has application to the future, consider Revelation 3:10 where Christ said that the faithful would be protected during the tribulation that was coming upon the entire inhabited earth.
What do you mean that the ‘demon hordes are going to go crazy?’ They are already crazy. If you don’t think so, just check out this next war. Again the great tribulation is not for the world of mankind, it is specifically designed for Jehovah’s Witnesses by Jehovah.
Wars seem to always serve as a pretext for the nations to persecute Jehovah's Witnesses. The next war will no doubt be the tribulation. And it is coming upon the entire inhabited earth as Jesus forewarned. Probably from the worldly perspective it will be assumed to be WWIII. But of course it will merely serve as the occasion when Jehovah and Satan settle their ongoing issue. And Jehovah's anointed ones are the issue. / You Know
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Mommie Dark
Sideshow Bob declaims: "And Jehovah's anointed ones are the issue."
Strip away all his blahblahblah, it boils down to this last sentence. Sideshow Bob sez: It's all about me me ME, the anointed Priest/King.
See Sideshow Bob, Hubris-man, try to levitate himself to God's right hand.
See Sideshow Bob grunt & fill his pants making the effort.
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Copernicus
Wars seem to always serve as a pretext for the nations to persecute Jehovah's Witnesses.
Really? What a coincidence! And here all along I'd thought that 99.9999999% of the people effected by these wars were NOT JW’s. Guess I was wrong.
Can you say delusions of grandeur?
More self-aggrandizement beamed in from the center of the universe, where YK is soon to reside.
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thinker
YouKnow,
The biggest apostates of all are the GB ! If the angels are going to "clean house", I suggest they start at the top.
As for us "apostates" here on the forum, we are opposers of the GB and their false teachings; making us apostates to the apostates."Never lose your ignorance - it cannot be replaced."
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logical
Sideshow Bob is funny. You can tell so easily he was Krusty's ex sidekick.