LATEST INSTALLMENT OF APOSTATE "DOOM"...

by You Know 93 Replies latest jw friends

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  You Know

  The “initial phase” of the great tribulation? Where does the Bible say that the tribulation will be divided into phases?

  Jesus said it at Matthew 24:29: "Immediately after the tribulation in those days the sun will be darkened....and then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven." So the initial phase of the tribulation is the cataclyism that comes upon the entire inhabited earth and causes men to faint with fear in expectation of further calamity. As a result of that initial blow the governments, or the powers of the heavens as Jesus cryptically referred to them, will collapse. After that, though, Christ is revealed and Armageddon ensues. So there most definetly are two distinct phases leading up to the end of the world.

  If his disciples have to flee and the whole world is in turmoil, where will they be able to flee?

  There will not be any literal place to flee to. That's the point. Only Jehovah will become a refuge for the faithful. Any one trusting in man will be doomed.

  The tribulation is upon everyone according to your theory.

  Correct. It is more than just a theory, as I have pointed out to you repeatedly, at Luke 21:35 Jesus said that the tribulation will commence "suddenly, instantly" and "it will come in upon all those dwelling upon the face of all the earth."

  Also the fact that he also said “on account of the chosen ones, these days will be cut short” shows that they are the ones directly affected. Or, are you saying that Jehovah cares nothing for the world of mankind, only JWs?

  You are the one who quoted the verse. Obviously Jehovah cares a great deal for his chosen ones, and because of his love for them, the world gets a temporary stay of execution from the initial phase of the tribulation.

  JWs believe that they have preached a message to the world that is sufficient to condemn them.

  No. The truth is we believe we have preached a message capable of saving whoever puts faith in Jehovah's saving power.

  But, the message that they have preached is a very contradictory one. It is fraught with untruths, the 1914 lie being the most egregious one.

  Obviously if the tribulation erupts in the near term then the 1914 issue will be settled. The tribulation, after all, is the culmination of Christ's invisible presence, so the tribulation will verify the fact that Jesus had long been present during the last days leading up to the finale.

  Jehovah is not going to judge the whole world based on such a message.

  Correct. The world is judged by how the respond to the crisis of the tribulation. Those who support Christ's beleaguered brothers and that refuse to compromise with the beast will be saved. Those who follow the numerous false Christs, and who don't recognize Christ's brothers, and that align themselves with the revived beast to save their necks will be doomed. That's the basis for judgment. So while no one is going to be judged by how they might view our message now, no doubt our faith will be the basis for the salvation yet to be revealed.

  And don’t you think that this people will get away before being taught a lesson to not lie in Jehovah’s name.

  I have written extensively on how God will discipline his people and rectify our errors.

  You make it sound like an accidental brush with the great tribulation.

  I don't know where you get that idea. Our organization is going to get wasted. I have posted numerous pieces on that in this forum and elsewhere.

  Why would Jehovah execute divine punishment upon the world before he punishes his own name people for their apostasies?

  Again, you apparently don't understand what the tribulation is and how it comes about. Just as you cited the Assyrians and Babylonians, how they were human institutions that were merely used as God's punishing agents, so too, the tribulation will not appear as a divine punishment. It is a human catastrophe that God merely uses to refine his organization. But once that occurs, then God uses that same organization in a much greater way during the remaining part of the tribulation. All the while the world will be trying to humanly solve a situation for which there is "no way out."

  How does one observe ‘in a sense'?

  Most of the world couldn't really care less about Jehovah's Witnesses one way or the other. But, when we are laid low, from God's standpoint it will serve notice that he has spanked us. The world won't see it that way at all, because if they did they would have to acknowledge that Jehovah is our God, the One who scourges his own beloved ones. They will take it as a sign that we were frauds from the get-go.

  Please explain how the nations can be humiliating and reproaching Israel if they, at the same time, are themselves being trampled?

  After the initial phase of the tribulation is past, it may appear that the UN has saved the day---momentarily. So there may well be some interim of relative peace before Armageddon. One thing is for certain though, the scene of the world is definitely going to change after America gets toasted. The UN will take on the character of the former Soviet empire. Much worse in fact because there will be no one to check his hand. So he will be doing a lot of trampling. Genocide really. Basically though it ain't worth it for me to go in to all the prophecies that have a bearing on this just to win an argument. I do though think those verses you quoted apply to us, just not in the same manner as you do apparently.

  Could this ‘bad report’ begin with the probe by Dateline into the pedophile problem in the organization?

  You gotta be kidding? Tabloid journalism is nothing but gossip. We are going to really get it a lot worse than that.

  So true, because you are not looking at it the way Jehovah does. Your leaders are so determined that nothing bad will happen to JWs that they choose to close their eyes to the real application of the scriptures.

  I agree totally.

  They say: ‘everything good will happen us and everything bad will happen to them (Christendom, I guess).’ The bible will be fulfilled entirely upon JWs, the ones called by God’s personal name, or ‘the city upon which my name is called.’ You can’t make this fit Christendom.

  Yes, you are absolutely correct.

  If Jehovah dissolves your covenant with death, have you any idea what that means? Some of you will be killed during the great tribulation in spite of what the WTS teaches.

  If I had no idea what it meant I would not have said it. Jesus plainly said that we would be delivered up to death. And Revelation 6:11 says: "Until the number was filled also of their brothers who were about to be killed..." / You Know
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  You Know

  Are we done with this thread, BJC2012? / You Know
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  logical

  You Know

  You are very bitter and twisted. You only seem to preach death and destruction.

  Im sure Jesus wanted his followers to preach life and help those in need etc.
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  Scorpion

  You Know,

  You said: Obviously, if the tribulation erupts in the near term then the 1914 issue will be settled.

  IF IF IF. The Jehovah's Witnesses have been preaching IFs since the time of Russell, of course at the time of Russell the WT movement was refered to as (BS) Bible Students.

  When I read your posts I see much speculation and Watchtower indoctrination. You can IF your way till the day you die just as many of the older ones in my former congregation have done. In the last 7 months 4 of the older JWs over the age of 70 have died. Did they see their dream of a paradise earth teaching the speculative IF of the WTBTS?

  The problem with you is that you teach and preach WT doctrine and ignore common sense. You also ignore what God is telling you through the man made errors of the organization you put so much stock in.
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  You Know

  IF IF IF The Jehovah's Witnesses have been preaching IFs since the time of Russell, of course at the time of Russell the WT movement was refered to as (BS) Bible Students.

  Not really. As far as we are concerned there is no "if" but only "when." In the case of Noah's flood the last days of that system run up to 120 years. So it is not at all unusual that the last days of the present world have extended over a considerable period of time.

  The problem with you is that you teach and preach WT doctrine and ignore common sense. You also ignore what God is telling you through the man made errors of the organization you put so much stock in.

  You really don't know what you are talking about. Common sense says this system is finished. There are many people who are not Jehovah's Witnesses who see what is really happening in the world, and they are rightfully frightened because they realize that something has got to give soon. You may choose to ignore reality, many do, but sooner or later reality is going to bite---HARD. / You Know
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  Scorpion

  You Don't Know,

  Why use the word IF when you actually mean when?

  The day's of Noah have nothing to do with the false dates and speculations of the WTBTS. You confuse issues to make your argument appear reasonable.

  You said that I do not know what I am talking about as far as this system being finished. Hey, I was not the one who predicted 1914,1915 1918,1925,1975 and the end of the 20th century. Take a look in the mirror You Know, and tell yourself all these dates and the things predicted set up by the WT, the organization you defend, actually materialized.

  And you say I do not know what I am talking about?
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  You Know

  And you say I do not know what I am talking about?

  Yes, this is correct. You do not know what you are talking about. It is in fact mindless to assume that just because the brothers have had premature, even false expectations, that that annuls the fact that this system is in its terminal phase. / You Know
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  bjc2012

  You Know,

  You said: "Jesus said it at Matthew 24:29: "Immediately after the tribulation in those days the sun will be darkened....and then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven." So the initial phase of the tribulation is the cataclyism that comes upon the entire inhabited earth and causes men to faint with fear in expectation of further calamity. As a result of that initial blow the governments, or the powers of the heavens as Jesus cryptically referred to them, will collapse. After that, though, Christ is revealed and Armageddon ensues. So there most definetly are two distinct phases leading up to the end of the world."

  I did not see two distinct phases of the tribulation described in your above answer. The phrase 'immediately after the tribulation" cannot by any stretch of the imagination be construed to mean that this is a part of the tribulation. Unless, of course, the word 'after' means something entirely different to you than what is given in the dictionary. The only 'distinct phases,' as you put it, of the tribulation that could possibly exist are its 'beginning' and its 'end.'

  Try again!

  bjc
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  Abaddon

  Dear bjc2012 and You Know.

  Could you move your portentious dribble about the mountain of defecation to an appropriate forum.

  Show a little fucking consideration.
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  You Know

  I did not see two distinct phases of the tribulation described in your above answer. The phrase 'immediately after the tribulation" cannot by any stretch of the imagination be construed to mean that this is a part of the tribulation.

  Huh? Why should you have to use your imagination to understand what the phrase "immediately after the tribulation" means? If you can't see it more than likely that's a personal thing and not a problem with the language. / You Know