Presidential lies and bogus reasons for war ... lessons from the past

by Simon 58 Replies latest social current

  • Englishman
    Englishman
    If you want a lesson from the past look at how the League of Nations dealt with Japan's aggression against China. If you want another one look where Neville Chamberlain's "peace in our time" got us.

    Exactly.

    Dictators never settle for appeasement. They just want more and more and more. The fact that this particular dictator gambled that the far superior forces of the coalition would not atttack just shows how far these types of people are prepared to go.

    You can search around for all the reasons in the world why it would serve Messrs Blair & Bush to attack Iraq. At the end of the day and evil regime has been ousted and would be agressors such as Gadaffi et al have been put on notice.

    Englishman.

  • Yerusalyim
    Yerusalyim
    Is that going off the bogus figures that the Pentagon puts out or the real figures?

    I just made up the figure Simon, this is a thread about lying you know. This figure is a best guess which is all we can do. The estimate right now stands at 5000 - 7000. Of those many are Fedeyeen and Iraqi Army soldiers who switched into civilian clothes and kept fighting.

  • Yerusalyim
    Yerusalyim

    I'm still waiting for Shamus to explain how it is that the Iraqi people are WORSE OFF now with Saddam gone...

  • logansrun
    logansrun

    Az...

    Maybe I'm getting tired of seeing my country and it's policies trashed consistently by those in other countries. I have no problem critiqueing the US governement but, I lived most of my life there. I have an obligation to doubt and challenge them. It's my duty as a citizen. I do appreciate an outsiders opionion but, I get a bit irritated when they make it their mission to point out every deficiency. How would you feel if Blair and your government were constantly berated? It's a tad over the edge

    WTF?! Aren't you a Canadian now anyway?

    B.

  • sf
    sf

    http://homepage.mac.com/webmasterkai/kaicurry/gwbush/dishonestdubya.html

    Sorry, SF, it's slowing everything down too much.

    Englishman.

  • Englishman
    Englishman
    Maybe I'm getting tired of seeing my country and it's policies trashed consistently by those in other countries. I have no problem critiqueing the US governement but, I lived most of my life there. I have an obligation to doubt and challenge them. It's my duty as a citizen. I do appreciate an outsiders opionion but, I get a bit irritated when they make it their mission to point out every deficiency. How would you feel if Blair and your government were constantly berated? It's a tad over the edge

    It's OK as long as it's us that's doing it.

    The point is well made.

    However, Brits always bash their politicians at every opportunity, even the good one's. Remember, we voted Churchill OUT immediately after WW2, probably out of sheer orneriness.

    The bashing you see Bush getting from Brits does make me squirm with embarrassment somewhat, as, to me anyway, it smacks of bloody bad manners. There's plenty of Americans who can bash Bush without our help.

    In mitrigation, all I can say is that we bash for a pastime and I guess that we won't draw a special protective "No bash" line around the US while we bash everyone else.

    I do empathise though. It does seem excessive IMHO.

    Englishman.

  • shamus
    shamus

    I totally agree with you on some points. Why come here and get barraged with questions and yelled at? Maybe this place is better off politics free and get down to the healing that is at hand; that being getting over a cult. Maybe another forum can be started by someone else where we can all kill ourselves?

    After all, it's not every day when someone from Canada (me) insinuates to another person (Yerusalim), who is or was a marine, that his country is horrible. I think that I don't like replying on Political threads about the U.S. I think I'll start another group where we can all vent about America. And if they don't listen then we'll get back at them.

    See how terrorism starts? I'm just rambling... not making sense as per usual.

    Yerusalim,

    How are the Iraqi People better off? You need to see the cuttings off of the CNN floor before your eyes can get opened. In Canada we don't have media that is run by the government. That is how they are controlling what you see. OR MAYBE I'M JUST FULL OF SH**. True enough.

    How will this issue be resolved? HOW? This bickering about the United States and Iraq?

    When the soldiers come home and tell us what they think. That's how. Maybe I am full of it. Maybe I'm just a redneck hick living in a van down by the river.. who knows? The one thing that I can honestly say is when those United STates soldiers come home and can actually talk about what happened and how things were, that's when the world's eyes will get opened, even mine, even Simon, even every anti-U.S. hater, sympathizer, lover, lukewarm, whatever. That's when this whole thing on Iraq will be solved.

    I think until that time I will just shut the hell up about my personal beliefs on the United States. It's no wonder why there's so much anger in the world. Telling an ex-marine what I think about America is just stupid. If I was in a bar with him and talked to Yerusalim the way that I talk to him on line I'd probably be punched out for god's sake!

  • Double Edge
    Double Edge
    Get a grip people. Find out what's going on right in Iraq right now, and see how they're lives have changed.

    Right Shamus.... for several hundred families, they have their children back. Children who were left rotting in PRISON for the crime of not supporting Saddam.. CHILDREN ! .... CHILDREN!!! ... for me, that alone made it worthwhile.... For HUNDREDS of THOUSAND of others, they are now just finding out the sad fate of their loved ones who were brutally murderd by a dictator and a 'world' who looked the other way and ignored a treaty signed 12 years previously.

  • ColdRedRain
    ColdRedRain

    We all know politicians lie just look at past presidents like Bill Clinton but when people die because of those lies than those liars should be held accountable.

    People did die because of Clintoon's lies. He lied to the American people about his intent to go bomb Iraq when he was guilty of lying under oath. At least when W. said he was going to Iraq, it was to go there and to flush out an evil dictator that supported Al Quieda in the past and was no stranger to terrorism.

  • ColdRedRain
    ColdRedRain

    Most of those W. "lies" are just conspiracy theories like this one.

    George W. Bush rigged the 2000 election so that big corporations and oil companies could steal from The United Nations.

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