So, Why Does God Permit Wickedness?

by minimus 93 Replies latest jw friends

Greenpalmtreestillmine

Why does God permit wickedness?
How do we know what he permits or not? How do we know that the earth would not be a much more violent and wicked place without God's intervention at times?
I believe God has intervened in mankinds affairs when his intervention was necessary to enable those who were working for positive change to succeed. God does not exist to answer all our questions or our requests. He is working to see this thing through to its final end, the happiness and everlasting life of mankind.
Well, that's my belief.
Sabrina
sandy

The subject of the Bible, God and Religion creates more questions than answers.
Double Edge, I agree. This is the best explanation I've heard as well.
The best explanation I heard was: Life's a 1000 piece puzzle in which we have only a couple of dozen pieces. Enough to see an outline and a few shapes or figures, but definitely not enough to see a clear picture. Yet, with all of the pieces in place, there is indeed a wonderous picture.
I can't speak for God (who can), but I can equate it to exercise.... no pain, no gain... if the wicked were always stopped, how could people strive to excel emotionally, physically, whatever? We make choices because we are challenged. Civilization as a whole moves forward because it has always been challenged in one way or another. I'm not saying that's the answer, I'm just saying we look at the few pieces of the puzzle we have and try to guess at what the picture is, when in fact, we're probably so way off it's pathetic. my 2 cents...
hillary_step

Next time a child is being raped, or defenceless women are being slaughtered, or people being tortured to death for living on the wrong patch of earth, I will gain great solace from knowing that the reason that this is happening is that God has signed a non-interference pact with free-will.
Free will *does not* answer the question as to why God permits wickedness, it rationalizes it. For if we were to 'accept' that free will were the reason it would allow us all to stand next to a person who is being kicked to death and exercise our free will to look the other way. Not only is it illegal to do this in most US states, it is morally repugnant.
It seems to escape the notice of most traditional, and indeed many non-traditional believers that this earth, if it shows Gods hand within its design is a slaughterhouse, where every animal from the most microscopic to the largest has to kill and feed on the bodies of others to survive. A vast killing field where the camouflage of deceit is at play continually and where many animals, and indeed many humans live in fear of their lives on a continual basis.
People have had this 'free-will' exercised *against* them and this has been happening without a moments grace for tens of thousands of years. Why is God permitting this abuse of 'free will', this is at the heart of Minimus' question. Does he have a plan, or is he just going to utter, 'Free Will' every time a body is lowered into the earth?
HS
bebu

Next time a child is being raped, or defenceless women are being slaughtered, or people being tortured to death for living on the wrong patch of earth, I will gain great solace from knowing that the reason that this is happening is that God has signed a non-interference pact with free-will.

Do you feel this strongly about "lesser sins"? If extremes like this did not exist, and "fairly bad" things like burglary, lying, cheating, etc., were now the worst things, would you feel the same way? In a sense, we are saying that we could tolerate evil so long as it weren't an extreme.
I think evil is an all-or-nothing kind of thing. We can't rail at God if all the while we are coddling "smaller" sins, but that is what we usually do.
We may not be able to rescue a child from an abuser today--but we can pay special attention to what moral choices we make in our own circles. Grass roots.
bebu
Greenpalmtreestillmine

HS,
It seems to escape the notice of most traditional, and indeed many non-traditional believers that this earth, if it shows Gods hand within its design is a slaughterhouse, where every animal from the most microscopic to the largest has to kill and feed on the bodies of others to survive. A vast killing field where the camouflage of deceit is at play continually and where many animals, and indeed many humans live in fear of their lives on a continual basis.
There is more good than bad on the earth. The Watchtower always emphasized the negative things going on in order to get us to believe their teachings but the earth has more good people doing good things than the other way around. As for animals killing other animals for food I believe more animals in the wild die from old age, disease or accident than by animal predators.
Things are not great but they are not all bad either.
Sabrina
hillary_step

Bebu,
Do you feel this strongly about "lesser sins"? If extremes like this did not exist, and "fairly bad" things like burglary, lying, cheating, etc., were now the worst things, would you feel the same way? In a sense, we are saying that we could tolerate evil so long as it weren't an extreme.
That is not at all what I am saying or implying.
It does not matter what I think about 'lesser sins' or 'major sins', or indeed what in my mind are defined as such. What matters is that according to some, God allows some horrifc things to take place on this planet and this for many thousands of years, and his defence is that he has allowed this for the sake of the preservation of free will. This does not make moral sense. It may allow the perpetrator of bad things to exercise his free will, but it does so at the expense of a victim, who is then not told why God has allowed this to happen to them. That is what I illustrated above.
Green,
There is more good than bad on the earth.
Respectfully, that is irrelevant and a subjective and unproved opinion.
The Watchtower always emphasized the negative things going on in order to get us to believe their teachings but the earth has more good people doing good things than the other way around. As for animals killing other animals for food I believe more animals in the wild die from old age, disease or accident than by animal predators.
I would strongly argue with this point. I have no clue where you get such evidence to back up this statement, certainly not from zoological research. When I mention animals, I mean animal life. Insects, fish, invertebrate, plants from the smallest to the greatest, not just mammals. Every living thing on this planet needs the lives and deaths of others to survive, it is the way it works.
Best regards - HS
Greenpalmtreestillmine

HS,
When I mention animals, I mean animal life. Insects, fish, invertebrate, plants from the smallest to the greatest, not just mammals. Every living thing on this planet needs the lives and deaths of others to survive, it is the way it works.
I am sorry, I misunderstood. I don't think of eating plants as violent or coming under the category of wickedness but I suppose it can be considered that if someone holds all life even that of plants as something sacred and valuable.
The earth is a contained place and life as we know it requires energy, life gets that energy from other life forms and so we do consume life. You're right about that.
But I still feel that there are more people who would run into a burning building to help someone than there are those who would fly a plane into one in order to kill. Whether God is right or wrong in allowing the extent of wickedness found on the earth is something which in my opinion we have no right to ask. We choose to rape, we choose to murder, we choose to war, we choose to destroy the environment, we choose to torture and so on. Most of us do not but those of us who do bear the responsibility of that. If God stopped all famines would there be no hungry children in the world? If God stopped all murderers would there be no war? If God stopped all diseases would we give up those practices that harm our health? If God stopped anything we would find a way to continue it if we wanted to.
I don't mean to argue about this and I hope I'm not coming across as if I am. Just trying to express my feelings, something which I am very grateful for on this board.
My best regards also,
Sabrina
hillary_step

Greentree,
I don't mean to argue about this and I hope I'm not coming across as if I am. Just trying to express my feelings, something which I am very grateful for on this board.
Not at all and I hope that my cut-and-dried posting style does not shake your beliefs, this is not my intention. Though anti-social behavior is not encouraged on JWD, expressing *your* opinion is what this Board is all about and never allow anybody to thwart that for you. I enjoy these debates and have found many answers through them over the years.
I think the question that Minimus asks is a fundamental one and should be required 'asking' for any believer. As I noted in my first post, I am not saying that there are no answers, I am agnostic about the issue, but I have yet to hear an answer that does not rely on wishful thinking, fuzzy rationalization, overt denial, or a mixture of all three.
Best regards - HS
Nathan Natas

Starting in 1992, astronomers have become aware of a vast population of small bodies orbiting the sun beyond Neptune.
There are at least 70,000 "trans-Neptunians" with diameters larger than 100 km in the radial zone extending outwards from the orbit of Neptune (at 30 AU) to 50 AU. Observations show that the trans-Neptunians are mostly confined within a thick band around the ecliptic, leading to the realization that they occupy a ring or belt surrounding the sun.
This ring is generally referred to as the Kuiper Belt, and it is estimated to be less than 10,000 years old.
It has been detrmined that the Kuiper Belt contains the fragments of the planet Krypton, and it is the band of Kryptonite radiation that permits wickedness.
When that kryptonite is removed by the invisible reigning King Jesus Mxyzptlk, wickedness will cease, as will all other dichotomous relationships.
Indeed, the world will be made One in Jesus Mxyzptlk.
JamesThomas

I have yet to hear an answer that does not rely on wishful thinking, fuzzy rationalization, overt denial, or a mixture of all three.
Wishful thinking, rationalization and denial, are all products of thought. Perhaps you didn't notice that I suggested you look deeper not in thought, but rather into the only undeniable and actual reality you have. This was an attempt to move you out of the very things you mentioned. I understand the difficulty in connecting to what I feebly attempt to explain. It's outside the traditional cranial paradigm....and my writting skils are extremely limited. The first step in answering the question of God and wickedness is to see that if this thread was a mile long, it couldn't give you the satisfactory conclusion you seek. The mind doesn't have the answer. So, now what? There is an Intelligence from which the intellectual mind and all things arise, and That, is looking out your eyes even now. As you said, the question is "fundamental"; what is more fundamental than your own sense of being, of conscious awareness? Look deeper into what is fundamental for what is fundamental. Look deeper into what is True for Truth. You already posses the answers. j Your vision will become clear
only when you look into your heart ...
Who looks outside, dreams.
Who looks inside, awakens.
~ Carl Jung

So, Why Does God Permit Wickedness?

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