So, Why Does God Permit Wickedness? (page 7)

hillary_step

JamesT,

I did read your thread very carefuly, but it did not actually attend to the issue, which is a wide philosophical one and not one that can be governed by a self-imposed insight.

I do agree that this question has remained unanswered throughout history and will continue to be so in the forseeable future, but it is incumbent on those who claim a belief in God to at least attempt to answer this question. If they cannot do so then they have failed in their faith at a primal level.

The first step in answering the question of God and wickedness is to see that if this thread was a mile long, it couldn't give you the satisfactory conclusion you seek. The mind doesn't have the answer. So, now what?

But the mind does have an answer James, an answer that is uncomfortable to many but is based in the reality of history and human experience. Then perhaps the only sensible conclusions are as follows.

1) God does not exist. - Wickedness is thus defined in evolutionary and visceral terms.

2) God may exist and is morally compromised by his lack of intervention in this matter.

3) God exists and has a long-term plan of which he has deliberately and for unknown reasons kept all in ignorance.

Jung did indeed make a valid point :

Your vision will become clear - only when you look into your heart ...Who looks outside, dreams. Who looks inside, awakens.

Perhaps James, he was actually suggesting that an internal awakening would result us facing up to some of the uncomfortable definitions that I note above. He who looks without realistic thought on the matter dreams.

Best regards - HS

Greenpalmtreestillmine

HS,

but it is incumbent on those who claim a belief in God to at least attempt to answer this question. If they cannot do so then they have failed in their faith at a primal level.

I think the problem lies in that one man's answer is not satisfactory to another. So though a sincere attempt is made at providing an answer, that answer will not satisfy everyone.

I am not qualified to enter into the subject as you and James Thomas are doing so I will bow out. I do admire the ability you both have to go where my mind cannot tread though. Interesting reading.

Sabrina

Love_Truth

Shotgun,

...their first child was a murderer, their second child slaughtered sheep and offerred them to God. ( Would a God of love require that)

Yes, free will allows us to make both good and bad choices. The murder was clearly wrong, the offering of sheep was apparently good in God's eyes. It had a symbolic nature, that would be later revealed in the Mosaic Law, and ultimately, Christ's sacrifice in atonement for Sin. How is offering sheep "unloving"? I eat meat, most do. I don't find it a problem.

Is there a possibility that mankind would never sin and lose imperfection seeing the past history of mankind as told in the bible...man seems incapable of living upto the requirement of perfection. ( Leave Jesus out of this one for now )

Sure, that's what I was getting at. We're made in God's image, so we inherently have free will. So, it follows that such will always be the case. Humans, even perfect ones like Adam and Eve, will always be able to do wrong. We have the same choice today, although our imperfect nature causes us to sin sometimes without knowing it until after the fact.

Even the Universe is not perfect with asteroids and comets crashing into planets and metorites hitting earth.

How's that "not perfect"?

Where the dinosaurs created perfect and God decided to let them die because an asteroid accidentally collided with the earth or did he intentionally wipe them out?

Only humans are made perfect, at least with the ability to live forever, IMO. Again, IMO, God experimented with dinosaurs and other life forms in order to learn from the experience, then probably had them die off through whatever means he chose.

I'm not trying to knock you these are questions that float around in my pea brain and are difficult to answer!

You certainly don't have a "pea brain", there Shotgun, I've seen your other posts on the way you handled those "Elders" and I very much respect your intelligence.

Love_Truth- Ask away, my friend!

hillary_step

GreenTree,

I think the problem lies in that one man's answer is not satisfactory to another.

My own feeling is that the answer ought to satisfy the victims of wickedness, if it satisfies them, who am I to argue...lol

Best regards - HS

particlesnwaves5

I think we are asking the wrong question.

The question assumes a concrete position with concrete aspects. It assumes that the Bible is best taken literally. While most fundalmentalists would agree and find an answer that suits them with a concrete interpretation of the Bible and of God and of his plan (or purpose--if you prefer), most people do not find the answers given very satisfying.

Take the story of Job(often used in witness lit), for example. If you read it as a literal happening you must accept:

that God can let Satan kill off Job's slaves and children and later he would be pronounced happy because God allowed him to have ten more. Then the first children mean nothing.
that it is acceptable for Job to suffer immensely because of a wager between God and Satan.
God is an neurotic personality that has to prove something to someone who is supposed to be an psychopathic lying spirit.
When Job tries to take up for himself with his ridiculers, and begins to question the reason behind his suffering, God launches into a lecture about his superiority to the point where Job admits he is nothing but a worm, and that is a healthy spiritual and mental attitude.
That we must continually prove love and loyalty to God. If God were a lover of mine I would seriously consider leaving him because of his lack of faith and trust in me. How would you feel if you were in a intimate relationship with someone who allowed you to suffer greatly and needlessly because he wanted to see how you would react and not one time but many times and from all directions? Is not a spiritual relationship, the most intimate of all relationships?

I could spend some more time and space to this but I think you see that the book of Job is problematical, to say the least.

I think if we could define the problem(s) better--we would be closer to the answer(s).

BeautifulGarbage

That's because God (if it exists) is a complete and utter DUMB ASS. That's STUPID BUTT to those that don't like cussing.

I would be such a waaaay better god than God.

God would be so outta here. Like in, be gone!

I would also eliminate those nasty blank posts!

Love_Truth

Garbage,

Have you ever seen "Bruce Almighty"?

I'd highly recommend you see it.

EDITED TO ADD:

I've run out of posts, so I'll reply here:

Green,

It's certainly understandable when folks make negaitive comments about God, but, as that movie makes clear, it's up to us to "be the miracle", and try to see things through God's eyes, by no means an "easy job".

I think attitude is much of what it comes down to, as to how we view God. How much personal anguish we've experienced, or how much we've suffered from wickedness, has absolutel nothing to do with it, of that I am certain.

Glad you enjoyed the movie too!

StuntedStain,

I can only say what I've said above to you as well- attitude, my man, attitude!

Cheers,

Love_Truth

Greenpalmtreestillmine

Love_Truth,

I loved that movie, "Be the Miracle!" So very good and very true!

Sabrina

SixofNine

My own feeling is that the answer ought to satisfy the victims of wickedness, if it satisfies them, who am I to argue...lol

And that my friends, is the lowest minimum standard for "spirituality", imo. Well said, Hillary.

So, Why Does God Permit Wickedness?

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