So, Why Does God Permit Wickedness? (page 8)

Satanus

Love tooth

If slaughterhouse (thanks HS) earth is the best god can do, then it has a LONG way to go. That means we are just a transitional experiment, as it learns of better ways for life to exist within matter.

SS

Greenpalmtreestillmine

SixofNine,

The "lowest minimum standard for spirituality" is love, something very much in supply here.

Sabrina

seeitallclearlynow

Hillary_Step -- you're awesome!

James Thomas -- you're awesome too, I just love you, but I don't usually understand you.

Gadget

I think if we could define the problem(s) better--we would be closer to the answer(s).

Good point. By the question ' Why does god permit wickedness', I presume you mean 'Why does god allow wicked thing/acts to happen'? But what is a wicked thing/act? If somebod attacked somebody and knocked them to the ground without provocation then I would class that as a wicked thing. But if somebody attacked somebody and knocked them to the ground because that person was raping somebody, and that was the minimum force required to stop that from occurring, I would not class that as a wicked thing. You can't destroy something if you don't know what it is, so what would you define wickedness as?

hillary_step

Gadget,

I understand what you are saying, but it confuses what is a simple statement. The question is 'Why Does God Permit Wickedness' and implicit in that question is an understanding that the wickedness being referred to are the henious acts perpetrated upon the innocent. The question was not, 'What Does God Define As Wicked'.

Anyway, your illustration bears no weight in the matter, as had God had not permitted the rape, then a defense of the person being attacked would not have been neccessary. It ends up in the 'free will' standpoint which is not morally defensible.

Best regards - HS

JamesThomas

I did read your thread very carefully, but it did not actually attend to the issue, which is a wide philosophical one and not one that can be governed by a self-imposed insight.

Dear Hillary, Perhaps you're right, my view has no bearing on what is being discussed....on a certain level. However, on a deeper foundational one it may go right to the heart. To argue a conceptual question is a merry-go-round ride, as there is no foundational truth there to find....except the truth that there is no truth. I feel that what we are all ultimately after is truth, for that is what gives peace and comfort. Plato used a story that he lifted from his beloved mentor Socrates, which may express well what is going on here. Imagine people chained from birth facing a cave wall. Behind them (which they can not see) are people moving about and behind them, is a fire. The entire life of the people chained is one of moving shadows upon a wall. It's all they know -- it's their reality. Upon the wall is their god and wickedness, and life stories. They know of nothing else. Imagine now one of the chained ones escaping her bonds and discovering the people and fire behind her. Imagine still that she sees brighter light at the cave entrance and follows it outside to the sunshine and vast vista. WOW, what an awakening. However the story is not over. She returns into the cave to inform her chained comrades that their reality is not as it really is. However, her words are outside their wall reality, and it can be honestly said that she no longer attends to the issues, and has gone crazy. The question "Why does God permit wickedness" is a shadow question; which may be answered with shadow answers which can give solace to a few. But they will never have the deep ring of truth we seek, as there is none there. Questions like these can be a blessing, for they may strain our chains enough that we shift attention from the cave wall to deeper within to the cave entrance right here within everyone.

particlesnwaves5

>>The question "Why does God permit wickedness" is a shadow question; which may be answered with shadow answers which can give solace to a few. But they will never have the deep ring of truth we seek, as there is none there. Questions like these can be a blessing, for they may strain our chains enough that we shift attention from the cave wall to deeper within to the cave entrance right here within everyone.>> JT But if one has the courage, one will greatly evolve as a person. I wonder if the spiritual entity that is our ultimate source (God????) is evolving too. God creates us and we create him....

particlesnwaves5

Gadget,I am a phase right now of my life that is questioning everything. I am reading alot of different books. I have to question the idea of wickedness itself. I think you have a point about examining the motive behind certain actions. I think when a person intends to cause harm to another, without provocation, most people would classify that as an act of wickedness. But wickedness seems to me to be antiquitated word. I think of it along with the word evil/ badness. We live such a short time in this realm. If there trully is no afterlife I think these words and ideas have true and awesome relevance.

But if there is a afterlife and we are here on the earth to grow as spiritual souls, then wickedness and endurance of it may serve some good purpose. If when we die, we return to the "light" as persons who have had near death experiences claim, our sufferings here may serve some purpose. It is said that the light--God source is non-judgemental and completely loving. I have to admit I would like to think of God in that sense. I am not sure about the growth on earth part but it does seem to give meaning to suffering. But what about the souls on earth who commit dark acts--I guess they would have to be viewed as ignorant, lost.

I wonder about people who hurt others. So many factors can come into play. Environment, Health, Mental Health. All the chemicals and electrical reactions in the brain. What makes a person decide to be loving and compassionate and another hurtful? And who is these things all the time? I know I am capable of love and kindness, and empathy. I am also capable of envy, negativity, anger, mistrust, and ignorance. I think that it is a mistake to label people as wicked or good. There is a continuum and people usually rest somewhere on a scale of negative and positive. Some people will allow themselves to grow as they gain knowledge and skills and are helped to find motivation to behave in more positive ways towards others.

I am thinking my God is compassionate and that is the way I want to be.

<<Good point. By the question ' Why does god permit wickedness', I presume you mean 'Why does god allow wicked thing/acts to happen'? But what is a wicked thing/act? If somebod attacked somebody and knocked them to the ground without provocation then I would class that as a wicked thing. But if somebody attacked somebody and knocked them to the ground because that person was raping somebody, and that was the minimum force required to stop that from occurring, I would not class that as a wicked thing. You can't destroy something if you don't know what it is, so what would you define wickedness as?>>

hillary_step

JamesT,

Once again, many thanks for your post.

The question "Why does God permit wickedness" is a shadow question; which may be answered with shadow answers which can give solace to a few. But they will never have the deep ring of truth we seek, as there is none there.

I actually believe that the question 'Why Does God Permit Wickedness', which is obviously aimed at believers is *not* a conceptual question, nor one that deals with shadows. All the major religions of the earth in the final event attribute the quality of love and control to their God. Therefore the question is not one of concept, but 'should' be one based in fact, and one that in fact that leads to the factual conclusions as I have noted above.

What would be a conceptual question is this one for example, 'How Does God's Permission Of Wickedness Reflect On His Character'.

What you illustrate above with Plato's homily actually falls in line with the point of view that suggests that God has kept us ignorant of the answer this question. We have no evidence whatsoever that straining at the light and turning around to face it will answer this question, as the conclusions that I note above, while uncomortable for believers. are the only ones that have surfaced after thousands of years of pondering the subject.

Best regards - HS

particlesnwaves5

I think when you use the word wickedness this saying has some relevance:

We are all Victims of Victims.

Even when I was a Witness I thought "Why does God allow Suffering?" was a better and more accurate question.

So, Why Does God Permit Wickedness?

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