All About The Trinity (page 10)

Is the purpose of your diagrams on page one to prove that the Watchtower has not misrespresented Trinitarians or that there is a pagan connection to the Trinity? I know no Trinitarian that uses the diagram of a 3-headed goddess with 6 arms to illustrate the Trinity. So why, to you, does it explain the Trinity very well?

herk

Kenneson,

Is the purpose of your diagrams on page one to prove that the Watchtower has not misrespresented Trinitarians or that there is a pagan connection to the Trinity? I know no Trinitarian that uses the diagram of a 3-headed goddess with 6 arms to illustrate the Trinity.

I think my purpose was clear. Someone presented a drawing used by Trinitarians to explain their doctrine. Attached to the drawing was the phrase "Diagrams like this explain the trinity very well." I simply presented some additional drawings used by Trinitarians, some claiming to be Christians and some not, that are used to illustrate their doctrine.

So why, to you, does it explain the Trinity very well?

Shouldn't your question be addressed to Trinitarians who use such illustrations?

herk

Deputy Dog

Kenneson

Isn't it funny that JW's and others, say they don't believe in the trinity because they can't understand it. And yet they don't seem to have a problem with other things they don't understand. Like how everything came into existence from nothing. I wonder If that means they're not really here?

D Dog

Kenneson

Herk,

For me to question the Trinitarians on the particular diagram you showed I would have to know the someone who presented this drawing of the 3-headed goddess, wouldn't I?

Kenneson

Herk,

In other words, what is your source?

herk

Kenneson,

I would have to know the someone who presented this drawing of the 3-headed goddess, wouldn't I?

Why has this become such a big and important issue with you? Surely you have access to the internet and to encyclopedias in your local library! Simply do a search for "Trinity" and "origin," and see what you come up with. There are so many weighty matters discussed in this thread that I find it fascinating that one person can allow himself to become bogged down with a matter so trivial and easy to resolve.

herk

Kenneson

Herk,

But diagrams are far from being trivial to you! And what you want me to do about those "someone presented" (apparently you're not the source) is not really consult Trinitarians, but encyclopedias and the internet. Very helpful. Thanks. I'll do that. Who knows? I might come across all those many diagrams you have posted on this thread somewhere else, but I don't know if they will all be by Trinitarians.

UnDisfellowshipped

I'm going to reply to everyone's comments that were directed at me in the order in which they were posted.

Ellderwho said:

You are implying onus is upon man. (IMHO the other "thief" knew who was hanging next to him)
The question should be asked ' what gives one faith in Jesus? A spiritually dead man has no faith.

As I stated above, the Scriptures show that The Holy Spirit "enlightens" a person, allowing that person to understand the Gospel, and then that person must make a choice of whether or not to be Born Again.

Notice these Verses:

A person who has been truly Born Again CANNOT lose his salvation:

1 John 3:9: Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

(That is talking about willfully practicing sin).

However, a person who has been "enlightened" (but not Born Again) by the Holy Spirit certainly can fall away to destruction and Hell:

Hebrews 6:4-6: For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, a nd have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.

Hebrews 10:26-29: For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. Anyone who has rejected Moses' law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace?

Ellderwho said:

On one hand your argument is that even the demons "know" Jesus. And then state one must know the "real" Jesus.

The Bible says that you must do more than simply "know" that Jesus exists to be saved. You must put your faith in Him as your personal Savior and Lord and that He died for YOUR sins and that He was raised for YOUR justification.

What was James saying in that Verse? What was his point in saying that the demons also believe?

James 2:19: You believe that there is One God; you do well: the demons also believe, and tremble.

Obviously James was saying that mere belief (head knowledge) of God will not save anyone.

I should clarify a few things however. I believe that when The Holy Spirit "enlightens" a person with the Truth of the Gospel, at that time, The Holy Spirit will reveal whatever knowledge and faith that that person needs to be Born Again, but then that person makes a decision whether or not to put his faith in Jesus.

Take for instance, the evil-doer on the cross next to Jesus. Matthew 27:41-44 (NKJV): Likewise the chief priests also, mocking with the scribes and elders, said, "He saved others; Himself He cannot save. If He is the King of Israel, let Him now come down from the cross, and we will believe Him. He trusted in God; let Him deliver Him now if He will have Him; for He said, 'I am the Son of God.'" Even the robbers who were crucified with Him reviled Him with the same thing. Notice that BOTH robbers next to Jesus reviled Jesus, mocking the fact that He called Himself the Son of God and the King of Israel. But then, something must have happened. The Holy Spirit must have enlightened one of the robbers, giving him the truth of the Gospel -- the Truth of WHO Jesus was, because notice what that one robber next says: Luke 23:42-43: And he said to Jesus, "Lord, remember me when You come into Your Kingdom." And Jesus said to him, "Truly I say to you, Today you shall be with Me in Paradise." So, if The Holy Spirit enlightened the robber with that knowledge while on the cross, then who is to say that The Holy Spirit did not also enlighten the robber with the knowledge that Jesus was the Messiah and God? Notice also that it was God who revealed to Peter the Truth of WHO Jesus was: Matthew 16: 15-17: He said to them, "But who do you say that I am?" Simon Peter answered and said, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God." Jesus answered and said to him, "Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven. I stand by my Scripture-based belief that if you are putting your faith in a false Christ, you are NOT going to be saved. If a person believed that George W. Bush was Jesus, and he put his faith in Bush, would that cause the person to be Born Again and saved?

All About The Trinity

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