Ressurection question

by Sookie 108 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  dan

  elderwho, vicarious baptism was around long before the thief died on the cross; but, yes, he died before I had a chance to make the inference.

  As for DNA, here's the story. Lehi with his family, (about 25 people) came to the Americas and found entire civilizations of people here. They intermarried with them and with each other. His religion and his culture is what survived, but how much of his DNA do you think is going to make it through 2,000 years of procreation? See how this DNA claim is a straw man?
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  ellderwho

  Dan,

  That is my exact point, The thief is "gauranteed" a place with the Lord before your supposed baptism, so that in itself is an exception to your original thought, that it is a must for salvation.

  Furthermore their is no inference whatsoever for the thiefs baptism. Your only recourse is a pure assumption thats it, anything more is by your own words "extra scriptural assumptions".

  By that statement and your thoughts on baptism for the dead, up to, and including the thief has painted you in a corner. Or own up and realize you need an exception to your position.

  You are the one in need of a "extra scriptural assumption" when it comes to the thief. Not me.

  Do you not see this glaring contradiction?

  but how much of his DNA do you think is going to make it through 2,000 years of procreation? See how this DNA claim is a straw man?

  As I said previous, DNA is not my forte'. Are you saying that DNA just "goes away"? On the other hand why not look at the studies that have been done?

  E
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  dan

  I got gauranteed a credit card the other day before this company knew who I was, but that means nothing. Christ gauranteed him a place before a proxy baptism performed. This is true, but it in no way implies that a proxy baptism will never be performed. All people will have their turn before the end.

  I never claimed to be chained down to scriptural references. I am showing that it is the rest of y'all that shriek and moan when someone says something that isn't in the Bible, but your own doctrine comes from everywhere but the Bible. You claim that extra scriptural assumptions are null and void, so don't YOU use them to back up your doctrine.

  How do you pronounce forte? Don't look it up, just type how you pronounce it.

  The identifying strains of DNA that are being spoken of here get so diluted through a handful of generations that it is impossible to say with any degree confidence where the Native Americans came from. All those studies showed was the existence of a strain that is more dominant in Asiatic peoples. It would also help you tro understand that race is a completely false assumption. There's no such thing as race. It is a definition that we have tacked on to people to label and generalize them. There is one race, the human race. There is nothing in biology that seperates the blacks from the Jews from the whites from the purple people. We are all genetically the same. Sickle Cell does not affect only black people, it affects people who lived around the equator and it has affected many white people. SARS does not only affect Chinese people. There are a whole slew of ideas that you accept as fact that are utterly and completely false.
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  ellderwho

  Dan,

  The word forte; for-tay def. a persons strong point.

  I never claimed to be chained down to scriptural references.

  Why not?
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  Kenneson

  Dan writes to Elderwho "vicarious baptism was around long before the thief died on the cross."

  Could you elaborate on that?
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  dan

  elderwho, "for-tay" is French, and it refers to music that gets louder. "Fort" is how you pronounce the Latin word that refers to a person's strong points. A common misunderstanding, it's OK.
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  dan

  Sure can elaborate, Kenneson. Vicarious ordinances have been around since OT times. Christ taught the Apostles of this, but He commanded them not to tell anyone. Secrecy was a big part of their ministry. The scriptures are replete with references to secrets. The thing is, if you write 'em down, they're not secrets, so you don't hear about most of them. There's a lot of stuff that the Apostles taught that isn't in the Bible.
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  ellderwho

  Dan,

  for·te [ fawrt, fáwr tày ] ( plural for·tes ) noun 1. strong point: something that somebody is particularly good at "Fort" is how you pronounce the Latin word that refers to a person's strong points. A common misunderstanding, it's OK. I dont know what kind of dictionary you reference, but all the ones I look up have the sound for-tay, That little mark right above the a in the pronunciation part of the given definition indicates it is a "tay" sound. You state "its a common misunderstanding" and that its "OK" Will you please elaborate. I never claimed to be chained down to scriptural references. Why not?

  No answer.Why not?
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  ellderwho

  Dan,

  7. Pronunciation Challenges: Confusions and Controversy

  § 86. forte

  This word, meaning ?strong point,? from French fort, meaning ?strong,? can be pronounced with one syllable, like the English word fort, or with two syllables. The two-syllable pronunciation, (fôr´t´´), is probably the most common in American English, but some people dislike it, arguing that it properly belongs to the music term forte from Italian. Dan, Are you one of these persons that dis-like the pronunciation I've given?
• 

  Deputy Dog

  Mark 4:22 For there is nothing hid, which shall not be manifested; neither was any thing kept secret, but that it should come abroad. Joh 18:20 Jesus answered him, I spake openly to the world; I ever taught in the synagogue, and in the temple, whither the Jews always resort; and in secret have I said nothing. Dan will say; that's what it says, but thats not what it means.