Freedom to Choose God

by UnDisfellowshipped 774 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • LittleToe
    LittleToe

    DD:

    LT wrote: ... right up to the point that he sinned. DD wrote: We have no way of knowing how long that was. It could have been 5 minutes or 5 years.

    Surely that's irrelevant. If he was righteous before the fall, it doesn't matter if it was for one minute or any time longer, as he was righteous.

    I don't think he was " unrighteous " or "righteous". He was just innocent (in their case I guess ignorance really was bliss). In order to be "unrighteous" he would have to know what right and wrong was. Until he ate of the fruit he had no way of knowing anything about that.

    Is righteousness a standard of man or God? Internal or external?
    If it's external, surely it makes no difference whether or not he knew what was right?
    Is righteousness judged by actions/thoughts, or by personal conscience?

    Let me ask you, if Adam had looked at the fruit and thought about what it would be like (lusted?), to be like God, knowing good and evil, and choose not to eat it, would God have found him guilty or punished him (in light of Mat.5:28)?

    I agree that it is theoretically possible that he might have been doing something wrong from the moment he lusted after the fruit (even if that was only in the moments before he actually ate, be that one minute or longer - see, I can play fair ). The text tells us that he sinned by eating. It was when a law was transgressed that the punishment fell due. I understand that there was no law against looking at the fruit, only eating it (or in the case of Eve, potentially an extended clause against even touching it), I would have to sidebar the fact that there's a difference between lust and temptation, though I don't want to muddy this conversation by bringing that in, at this point.

  • Deputy Dog
    Deputy Dog

    LT

    Is righteousness a standard of man or God?

    Do you think Adam could live a righteous life today, with the law being given in such detail? For example, did Adam love God, with all his heart, soul, and mind? D Dog

  • LittleToe
    LittleToe

    Yes, I think he could.

    It appears the Israelites thought they could, too, as did the rich young ruler who was grieved at the idea of selling all his stuf and giving it to the poor.

    Is one righteous due to works or thoughts??

  • frenchbabyface
    frenchbabyface
    Freedom to Choose God

    Can we vote for mother nature ? ...

  • ellderwho
    ellderwho
    Do you think Adam could live a righteous life today, with the law being given in such detail? For example, did Adam love God, with all his heart, soul, and mind?

    Good question, because if he did love God he would have listened.

  • gumby
    gumby
    Good question, because if he did love God he would have listened.

    Did Peter love god when he didn't listen to Jesus words about denying him?

    Did David love god when he sinned with Bathsheeba?

    What kind of reasoning was that? The rightous sin , do they not?

    Gumby

  • Deputy Dog
    Deputy Dog

    LT

    Yes, I think he could.

    It appears the Israelites thought they could, too, as did the rich young ruler who was grieved at the idea of selling all his stuf and giving it to the poor.

    And you all have the same chance of being right or righteous! It Amazes me that you think Adam could live the whole law, when he couldn't even keep from eating fruit from one tree. To say that Adam was righteous before the fall would mean that he was keeping the whole law without knowing it, and in that state of righteousness he couldn't keep the one little part of the law that he was aware of. Also, if Adam was so righteous why did he not see the unrighteous Eve coming? This raises another question, could a righteous person even be deceived? I believe an innocent person could.

    Is one righteous due to works or thoughts??

    In Matthew 5 verse 28 Jesus seems to say both. I also believe that God knew He was placing an innocent (or blameless) sinner in the garden, not a righteous man, knowing that it was only time that separated the sin from the sinner, not righteousness. D Dog

  • Deputy Dog
    Deputy Dog

    Gumby

    Did Peter love god when he didn't listen to Jesus words about denying him?

    Did David love god when he sinned with Bathsheeba?

    What kind of reasoning was that? The rightous sin , do they not?

    They didn't love God with "all there heart soul and mind"

    It's like Jesus said

    Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

    This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

    In other words if you can do these two things you could keep the whole law.

    D Dog

  • Deputy Dog
    Deputy Dog

    Gumby

    The rightous sin , do they not?

    Rom 3:10

    As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

  • gumby
    gumby

    You just contradicted yourself DeputyDog.

    Gumby

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