My Turn!

by Derrick 68 Replies latest jw friends

  • Derrick
    Derrick

    I request the first ones to read this post, to save this post on your hard drive. I understand this forum is not moderated, and have carefully worded this post with the utmost consideration for Simon. However, in case gremlins cause it to mysteriously vanish, you can share this post with others who might want to know a little about me. Afterall I have been publicly villified on this site (as a search for "Rick" will verify). Why not hear what the horse has to say from his own mouth? Because some might not like it.

    Have you come to the point where it is ok to censor a post because some don't "like" it? Or because you reason "turnabout is fair play" alluding to moderator actions on my site? We shall soon find out.

    Once upon a time, I, Derrick (Rick) helped Australian Jehovah's Witnesses start H2O at a site that has since stopped offering anonymous unix shell service ( http://www.c2.org/ or C2.ORG). I have long since endured the searing heat in the "kitchen" when someone turned the thermostat to its highest setting. I sat back and accepted criticism for "having the unmitigated gall to administrate a moderated forum and thus promote censorship" as someone scolded. I even let myself get tied-up in the public square without offering resistance and flogged until bloodied as a spectacle before a jeering cybercrowd.

    My crime?

    You want to know?

    Turning on the pool filter to cleanse posts of profanity!

    Now it's my turn. Do I deserve to say anything in this "court" or must I sit there gagged as the jury reaches it's guilty verdict?

    Many had their say about me, murmurring "Rick this" and "Rick that." Search for "Rick" and "H2O" if you don't believe it. They even claimed I was "bitter," a "sore loser" and "jealous" of Simon! And every other petty claim. Far from the truth.

    Allow me, please, to let those of you involved in this debacle in on some things that I perceive as facts.

    FACT: I welcomed the creation of Simon's site when it started in March 2000 as diversifying the Jehovah's Witnesses community.

    FACT: I like Simon. He's a cool guy and certainly a dedicated brother.

    FACT: (clearing my throat and puckering my jowels to give you my Marlin Brando impersonation) I feel for the wrongdoing committed against Simon by The Organization(tm). Sometimes the Boyz in Brooklyn and their elder proteges tend to get mean spirited (imitating Marlin taking big drag on expensive Cuban cigar) but business is business. (changing my voice to mimic Darth Vader's to the beat of air repeatedly forced through a small orifice) You understand Simon. One day when you sit in your air-conditioned office behind the Watchtower President's desk, staring out plate glass over Patterson farm land, you will understand completely.

    FACT: I like Simon's bulletin board software over the buggy WWWBoard software, and have been since shopping around for a robust package for H2O. I have found one for under a thousand dollars that has everything this board has, but I have held off because I want two additional features:

    (1) Archiving into a web-accessible archive accessed by a neatly indexed HTML page, and

    (2) The option to display the board with reply-threading like WWWBoard.

    FACT: There is too much swearing on this site. Too much gratuitous use of the "F" word. As my Protestant mother would have said if she were alive to read this board, many of you should wash your mouths out with soap! Does it take a Jehovah's Witness to see that? Nada. Visit the many forums on the web to see the move toward family-oriented sites. There is even an international rating standard for family oriented sites that I would like to see H2O meet. Surely most of you want to help this site strive for that level of good taste and consideration for the tender sensibilities of others?

    There is a filter that Simon can activate that will sanitize the bad language that is awash on the board lately. For example, the filter will edit the post instantaneously as it goes up, so that if I said to you: **** off! (because a robotic sensor (or profanity bot) dressed the "F" word with one asterisk per letter), then you would feel the heat of my anger...minus the sunburn. Don't you agree that even with filtering the "kitchen" gets hot enough, without the heat of bald and naked profanity (as I once heard it called on a Usenet forum, in reference to profane language that is not dressed with asterisks)? Many of you will likely admit that I'm right. Bees are attracted to honey not vinegar. Every swear word is like a splash of vinegar on the topic. If you're trying to make a salad out of a hundred post topic, at least mix it with some good grade olive oil. ;-)

    FACT: Banning disruptive participants of a forum is the only way to keep that forum alive and healthy. Many pleaded with me for years to ban a few participants of noteriety, but I ignored their pleas because technically the Forum Participation Policy or FPP was not broken. I discovered too late that was a BIG MISTAKE. There is a happy ending to this seemingly tragic situation, however, because in starting from scratch we can focus on developing a quality site for true Jehovah's Witnesses interested in reformation, in order for them to live good Christian lives in a fully reformed organization.

    FACT: Creating a good privacy policy is a necessity to long-term security of forum participants. H2O posted a privacy policy on the old site that still applies, although I haven't dusted it off and hung it on H2O's home page. People need assurances the forum will never divulge their email addresses to any third party(ies), it will gather no personal information on them, and it will never analyze or compromise their click streams. Exploitation of forum participants in this manner is never a good thing, as I haven't a doubt Simon will agree.

    FACT: I want to see Simon's forum live long and prosper! H2O is an entirely different animal, and there is room for many Jehovah's Witnesses forums in the vastness of cyberspace!

    FACT: I never "turned against" H2O regulars or wanted them to leave. Those rumors are all hog wash.

    FACT: I don't deserve the lack of respect I've been given on other forums where I'm not immediately available as a participant to defend myself, anymore than Simon would deserve the same on other forums.

    FACT: Jan G. doesn't deserve the lack of respect she has received for trying to help H2O receive new visitors after its recent bottoming out. She has been active in helping Jehovah's Witnesses, from what I understand, back to when some of you were running around in diapers! The least you can do is afford her some respect, and address your disagreements with her with human dignity. If this was a planet were the feline species dominated, then I could perhaps understand seeing Jan get her eyes clawed out from coming here to express her true feelings. However the last time I checked, felines are passively staring out livingroom windows and getting chased by dogs, not redefining the morality behind the treatment of others.

    Those who have treated Jan G. without respect should be ashamed of themselves IMO! Those who have treated this lady and friend to the Jehovah's Witnesses community with respect -- even if they totally disagree with her for various reasons -- are to be commended as examples for those less fortunate enough to learn basic courtesy.

    FACT: I personally resent the actions of those who used H2O for years and took advantage of its hospitality (not spending a dime out of their own pockets to help while I funded it -- and ignoring the only "donation" I asked from them: To show some respect for others!). You know who you are. Then when H2O stops performing to your liking because banner ads provide the funding that H2O users failed collectively to provide, hear the wailing, whining and complaints from these collective "few"! No longer serving their purpose, I felt as if these "few" had discarded me like a used paper cup.

    I did learn something from all this. One discovers who their friends really are. I'm really glad this happened because I had no idea so many I thought were true "friends" would abandon me, then find them elsewhere saying such bad things about me (things that are not true). I started realizing there was one common denominator between these people who had once said they were my "friends" (but later were to give me the "Judas kiss"), claimed they were there to support me, expressed such appreciation for the many hours a day for almost 5 years I spent administering H2O (and as many more dollars out of my own pocket for monthly ISP charges). That common denominator was that they were all angry ex-JWs with not only a lack of desire to see the organization of Jehovah's Witnesses reformed, but in some cases with a vested interest in interfering with reform efforts.

    Those of you who use profanity for sport, why not show your host Simon a little respect and dignity, I mean, your posts are spicy enough. Adding profanity is like pouring extra hot sauce on a hot tomale in a Mexican Food Restaurant! It sickens many who are allergic to hot pepper, and turns off those who don't like that hot green stuff spread like peanut butter over their sushi.

    Show some respect to first time visitors to the Internet! Would you show up at a French Restaurant without a shirt? Would you show up at a Kingdom Hall meeting barefoot and in shorts and tank top? Would you sisters who were asked to become bridesmaids at your friend's wedding show up in bikini's? Surely it is not against your very nature to show a little decorum when posting in a public forum viewable by millions who are comprised of many conservative people. Simon's forum has such potential. Don't run it into the ground by exercising poor judgment in your speech. Show some finesse, some class, some decorum that will turn the heads of scholars, the media and anyone passing through Simon's site on their net journies.

    Rick

  • Francois
    Francois

    Just a couple of observations.

    You represent as "fact" that "There is too much swearing on this site." That's your opinion, buster. And it's like all opinions, subjective. I don't get the impression you understand the difference between subjective and objective. It's a fact because you think it is, end of discussion. How Borg-like.

    I didn't last long on your site. Maybe a dozen posts in all. I didn't use words on your site that you would have objected to. What I did do was to point out failed prophecies of the WTBTS, abuses of children in my own experience, and other very unfortunate behaviors of the organization and of my personal experiences with various of its "elders."

    My posts didn't last on your site 24 hours and they were deleted without so much as a by-your-leave, kiss-my-ass, good-bye, or any other comment. You even deleted my post that said such deletions were the acts of a coward. You deleted my post addressed to the GB. You deleted damn near every thing I posted there.

    You protest way too much.

    But having said that, I urge Simon to not only leave your post on this board throughout all future time, but to arrange it so that it stays ON TOP of all other posts forever.

    Francois

    My $0.02

  • Roamingfeline
    Roamingfeline

    Rick, let me be the first to say, "Go F*** yourself." You're as full of s*** as a Christmas goose. BTW, can you say "sour grapes"?

    Furthermore, JanG deserved everything she got. She DOES sign people up to her email list without permission, and she DOES harvest email addy's from websites. BOTH are big internet no-no's, no matter how much she's done for the ex-jw movement. She needs to get out of denial mode and own up, then change her behavior. Period. Already established. And she wouldn't have gotten blasted had she just owned up to it and stopped trying to lay guilt trips on everybody. End of story.

    As far as you coming over to THIS forum and trying to tell Simon what HIS rules should be, as I said in the first line, "Go f*** yourself." You need a good reaming. And I still say the JW religion is unreformable. Your posturing otherwise is your own opinion. And we all know what THAT is worth. Go sit in your echoing, empty forum and think about it.

    RCat

  • Roamingfeline
    Roamingfeline

    Oh! One more thing, if Dave M is reading this, I do believe this guy deserves the Horse's ass of the month award this month, don't you? And one of Mommie Dark's glass bellybuttons while we're at it. He needs to be able to see through all that SHIT. (Oh my, clean out my mouth with soap!)

    RCat

  • ticatoo
    ticatoo

    As a newbie I am not sure I should even reply to this post.....but as a ex-lurker on this and your site I think I will anyway.

    First, I am not offended by the "F" word.....What I AM offended by is the pedophile cover-ups and the bogus disfellowshipping practices of the WTB&TS....among other things. More people are hurt by the latter than the former.

  • Pathofthorns
    Pathofthorns

    Rick...

    First of all, I have to thank you for your work with h20, because it was a big help in me seeing "the truth". There are many people to thank and you would be one of them.

    On the other hand, I don't believe that simply because you filled a need for myself or others for a period of time that that AUTOMATICALLY means that people some how must indefinitely keep that community alive if they feel fine elsewhere.

    I also owe Obed and Witnet much thanks also for helping me "see" things. But Obed chose to make a wise exit and Witnet served a purpose for it's time. Knowing when to make an exit is as important as making a good start. I think that is where you failed.

    At some point someone or something failed to make needed change and address what people really wanted. Simon's site took up many of the dissident Witnesses when Witnet closed down, and then again took many of H20's posters when they became increasingly frustrated after H20's move to Coolboards and then again when several "big name" posters defected.

    I have posted here since it was a small and dead place, but it was a very special place that filled a special time in my life. I don't post here very often any more simply because I don't feel I "need" to. And perhaps one day I won't feel to visit at all.

    I think it would have been a wise move to have exited at the "top of your game" and followed through when you said H20 was closing. With all of the farewells and goodbyes, the time was right. It is survival of the fittest in this game. You are correct when you say H20 is a different animal. I think it is a DEAD ANIMAL.

    Time to move on. The online communities are people and they go where they go and settle where they want to. Communities evolve, people come and they go and a core seem to always remain. It's reasonable to think that Simon will face the same delemas as you one day and I hope he makes good decisions, including the last decision to "go out in style" and knowing when to do so.

    Path

  • Derrick
    Derrick

    I understand your frustration, and many complained we had moderators who were "overzealous" in their actions. Based on your description of the postings removed, I personally would not have removed them (and as a matter of FACT, I did not remove them).

    I was about to apologize and then realized it might, ironically, be considered like someone who runs a not for profit organization that many used the services of -- but few contributed to -- apologizing for the actions of a volunteer who offended them at a public benefit.

    In other words, I helped start a site similar to this one, ended up paying the monthly bills to keep it running, and for many years was repeatedly praised for helping the JW community to speak out. I figured few contributed to H2O's billing because few could afford it. Although I sometimes wondered whether it was the affordability factor when we received visitors like Sister New Hope, Martha, and others who described their newly remodelled kitchens in upscale areas of southern California. No matter, the site was free, people expressed appreciation, and in 1997 there was an uproar where many threatened to leave unless H2O started monitoring posts for (1) porno, (2) profanity, (3) racial hate, etc. The very ones no embracing the new god of profanity once insisted H2O start removing posts with profanity. Why?

    Because they reasoned -- and I ended up agreeing -- that newcomers to the Internet who were JWs, their target audience who they wanted to communicate with, would never give a site a chance IF that site was filled with profanity. That is true today as it was true in the past.

    On the basis of your description of those posts (which I obviously cannot review because they're gone), I apologize to you on behalf of that unknown moderator for deleting your posts. Although often a moderator would tell me a different story when someone complained that legit postings were removed -- and I would check the deletion bin to discover there was some exaggeration about the legitimacy of a post, that the REAL reason had been overlooked by the one issuing the complaint -- giving you the benefit of doubt is only fair.

    Someone said in email that all the apologies in the world "will make amends for those on Simon's site." They told me bluntly in an email recently:

    "Rick, You've served your purpsoe on the old H2O site, you're yesterday's news, considered washed up. They want nothnig less than your blood. Don't try apologizing or explaining away why things happened the way they did! Theyr'e not interested in anything like that. Thye've discarded you already and don't even care about what you think or feel or have to say. Jehovah's Witnesses will at least one day 'reinstate' you if you're on the outs with them. Not with them. You're never going to be 'reinstaetd' by this group again. Did you know a major pieve with them is not df'ing but the reinstating part? One sent me email & said JWs are "pansies" for letting these 'losers' back in. Don't you finally get it?"

    My response? If my heart was a "court," and mind were the "judge," I still have yet to decide because the jury's still out. I have taken a "wait and see" attitude. Still it is an awfully sad thought.

    Rick

  • Tina
    Tina

    rick you said."Last time I checked felines are <passively> staring out of the living room window and getting chased by dogs,not re-defing morality behind the treatment of others"

    Yes that's what you and your ilk would love -females to sit by quietly and passively as per kingdom halls.....sorry bud,this is the real world. Take your patriarchal mentality and shove it up yer ass.

    If Jang wants courtesy she should give it as well. Your defending of heinous net behavior is really stupid,just plain stupid.
    This is the second time you've come here and told Simon how to run his place. With your usual BAN BAN BAN........if the board offends you why are you here reading it?
    You're jonesin'man. You have no more control over us and boy do you HATE that!
    The normal world doesn't run ricks way.........you can see where your despotism got your board.
    Keep on posting this junk,,,it becomes clearer and clearer to all why h20 is dead.

    psssssst BETHelMOle's the name

  • Derrick
    Derrick

    Dear Ticatoo, interesting you should bring that up!

    "First, I am not offended by the "F" word.....What I AM offended by is the pedophile cover-ups and the bogus disfellowshipping practices of the WTB&TS....among other things. More people are hurt by the latter than the former."

    Has anyone noticed that the very first thing a new visitor sees at H2O's home page ( http://www.geocities.com/hourglass2.geo/) is a major "HEADLINE" about Silentlambs' web site? Then scroll down a ways, and more major coverage! Then go to both the previous coolboard and new aimoo H2O forum sites, and at the VERY TOP is a link to...Silentlambs!

    Has Simon placed a prominent link on the main page to Silentlambs? If so, I commend him! If not, I realize it's because he's busy working on it, and appreciate what he is about to do!

    By the way, there is reason to believe many JWs see Silentlambs' site and decide to go there, which interferes with them clicking on the International Open Forum for Jehovah's Witnesses link. Does that bother me?

    Not at all.

    I'm so against pedophilia in this organization that even if the prominent positioning of Silentlambs' link were to divert ALL traffic to his site, bypassing H2O and causing it to die out, it's worth keeping our priorities straight. Silentlambs efforts to stop pedophilia has to come first.

    I have no doubt that Simon feels the same! Like myself, he no doubt would rather see traffic to his site diverted to Silentlambs (then of course much of that traffic will come back) by placing a link prominently displayed on ALL Jehovahs-Witness.com forum pages to:

    http://www.silentlambs.org/

    I once again praise the efforts of Silentlambs and hope the prominent placement of links to his site from those arriving at H2O's "portal" will bring him many more visitors, and increased public awareness of this problem.

    Rick

  • Derrick
    Derrick

    Pathoforms, you mean I was mistaken to believe all those people who begged me not to shut it down when I was ready to pull the plug on February 6, 2001?

    Those who were involved with H2O know that I was not going to continue the site. I also used the excuse that I had no adequate replacement site, when emails flooded H2O requesting I find a new ISP, that H2O was filling a useful purpose. Then guess what.

    Kent came to the rescue, and in a post to the old H2O (see archives from Joseph Malik), recommended Coolboard.com as the best bulletin board on the Internet at the time. I have Kent to thank for keeping it going. It's embarassing for some reason to think I was ready to close H2O and Kent's post suddenly seemed like the light at the end of the tunnel.

    Thanks again, Kent (as I thanked you in one of the first Coolboard.com posts still there for anyone who wants to view it). For all our disagreements, I'm not afraid or ashamed to admit that you helped me. Contrary to what some know-it-alls say here who really know nothing about H2O's past, I'm not thanking Kent out of sarcasm. I'm really glad he helped keep it going, because like many others he was right. H2O hasn't seen it's heyday, and could serve a useful purpose for many JWs for years to come.

    Thanks for letting me know H2O was a help to you, Pathoforms. It's like any other resource, does it die because it no longer serves a useful purpose for ourselves? Should it be closed because it's in a slow period?

    I honestly would have done what Obed did, and was ready to take my final bows. Then Kent recommended Coolboard.com, I was impressed (as it was lightning fast at the time), and I felt it was selfish to bow out when so many were urging me to press onward.

    Rick

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit