Dateline--Fahrenheit 911

by patio34 180 Replies latest social current

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  patio34

  A voice wanting to make money IMO period. In his movie 9-11 he was aware of some of the abuse of Iraqi's far before it was made public, yet he waited to disclose it in his film and tries to makes Bush and Co. look bad because he supossedly knew and did nothing. Moore could have blew the lid off this months ago but because he wanted to make a buck he kept it to himself and did nothing. ----------- Cassiline

  The way I understand this is that the military and pentagon (heck, it was even in CNN) about abuse of prisoners and, as they call it, the "investigation" was under way. It was only after CBS released the photos that the publicity exploded. And during these months before, families of service men who knew about it tried to get Congress to do something. Moore did not sit on information that the authorities weren't investigating. It seems to me that if anyone should get blamed for this, it would be the authorities in the Pentagon, etc. who knew about it, had General Taguba's report, and still the abuse and torture continued. Cassi, you present this as if no one knew about the situation except Michael Moore. Patently untrue. As far as Yeru and LA Big Dawg's character assassination and ad hominem insults, sorry but this seems typical of the far right. To ignore a lot of the main discussion and try to anger people into a fight and then say "see? they are hateful." It's not working. Try to stick calmly to the discussion without the insults. I'd really appreciate it. If you don't have anything helpful to contribute --for either side--start your own thread please. And now for the fun part! Hi Talesin! Doing an admirable job presenting your side and staying nice and calm without attacking people. William Penn, Hi! I must say that I didn't agree with some of Moore's conclusions in Bowling for Columbine and there were some discrepancies in it, I believe, of the bank giving out a gun right away when they claim they honor a 3-week waiting period (but they DID give Moore one on film!---so strike that!). But now that I think about it some more, I think I'll watch it again. You know even if people disagree, why do they get so hateful and accuse others of being anti-American, etc. I don't understand their concept of a democracy! Jst2Laws, thanks for your input into this and the very nice compliment! Are you enjoying your vacation? Tell Jozabel hi and a big hug!! Pat
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  exjdub

  As far as Yeru and LA Big Dawg's character assassination and ad hominem insults, sorry but this seems typical of the far right. To ignore a lot of the main discussion and try to anger people into a fight and then say "see? they are hateful." It's not working. Try to stick calmly to the discussion without the insults. I'd really appreciate it. If you don't have anything helpful to contribute --for either side--start your own thread please.

  Pat: I agree 100%

  This is what I find scary about this "war" on Iraq - note, on IRAQ, not terrorism. The attempt to silence dissidents, by claiming they are 'unpatriotic'.

  Tal,

  That is exactly the tactic used to shut dissidents up and for a while after 9/11 it worked. There was so much fear and anger that there was no room for questioning. Moore is right, fear has driven people to give up their privacy and their rights, even the right to question. How sad...

  Yeruuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu! Where are youuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu????? The echo of your silence speaks volumes.

  exjdub
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  exjdub

  You know even if people disagree, why do they get so hateful and accuse others of being anti-American, etc. I don't understand their concept of a democracy!

  Pat: That is a beautiful statement. My belief is that those who accuse others of being anti-American because of exercising the right to freedom of speech are the anti-Americans. As you said so well, it is the very concept of democracy.

  exjdub
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  patio34

  Thanks exjdub! But, are you kidding? Lol, I mean I thought this from you was brilliant and so to the point:

  I hear this argument frequently from people who are in the military. Does the fact that you are in the military entitle you to more freedoms than those that do not serve? It seems that this is what is being said by the statements you, and others in the military, make when commenting on political matters. It sounds like because I have not served in the military that I have no voice, nor the right to speak, when it comes to disagreeing with our government's policy.

  If you feel this way... then I would submit to you that you do not love freedom, for freedom provides these rights. The founding fathers never said that freedom was contingent upon agreeing with the government. The founding fathers never said that people that spoke out against tyranny or who disagreed with their government were taking a "ride on the shirt tails of those freedoms." Think about it...

  Who could argue with that? I read an opinion piece in our local paper that said since when is criticizing Bush criticizing America? We love America. Bush does NOT equal America!

  Hugs,

  Pat
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  jst2laws

  Yeru

  Richard Clarke, is the one who authorized the Bin Laden family to be flown out...he had already vetted them...it was his decision to make...Bush had nothing to do with it.

  You mean that the head of the executive branch of the US government, who's Airforce One was the only plane authorized to fly at that time, was unaware that there was one other plane flying the skys of America? Clark could make that decision without Bush aproval during this period of national crisis? Bush "had nothing to do with it"?

  Talesin,

  Yes we do seem to be on the same page.

  Patio,

  The trip has begun, finally. This feels like the first day I am able to relax. We will keep you informed.

  Jst2laws
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  got my forty homey?

  Just for public notice when I called Micheal Moore a fat hippy idiot I wasa being sarcastic because generally lefties are always thin skinny vegeterians who dont smoke or eat meat. I am fat as many of my pictures have shown on thias board.

  Simon edited my post and removed the fat hippy part yet several months ago Simon called Americans people with "fat arses".

  Simon, YOU may have spent to much time as a witness cause you run this site like the GB does the BORG.

  But I still love the site holmes.
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  talesin

  Pat,

  I only recall losing my calm once, and that was on the elder's thread, not in a political debate.

  If I have ever given you or anyone else the impression that I was angry, or made a personal attack in regards to these threads, then I apologize.

  t
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  Yerusalyim

  exjdub,

  I never said you or Moore didn't have the right to state opinions...there is such a thing as being responsible. Moore tells lies, things he KNOWS not to be true...as do many on the left who hate Bush, i.e. when Howlin Howard Dean floated the idea that Bush KNEW about 9-11 before it happened...which is pretty much Moore's position to.

  [ removed ]
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  patio34

  Yeru,

  I am requesting that you take your hate speech somewhere else. I mean it: get off my thread.

  Sure, there's free speech and that's why I haven't deleted your posts. But start your own thread instead of ruining mine.

  Pat
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  Yerusalyim

  Patio,

  Support of Michael Moore IS IN and OF itself HATE SPEECH....my reply...NO, if you want to Bash Bush, I'll defend him. You ruined your post by supporting Michael Moore.