Hey Sunspot .... how about the Search engine on the forum? lol
Charles T Russell -a freemason and the connection to the illuminati...
by dolphman 177 Replies latest jw friends
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Sunspot
** Hey Sunspot .... how about the Search engine on the forum? lol
RR,
Sounds like the chicken or the egg theory! If I hadn't known it was discussed before, why would I try and look it up? I don't have much success using that anyway. Sometimes I don't know how to word things to find what I want. It gets complicated, (sigh)!
I'll try it again later on. Thanks.
Annie
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Cygnus
Sloppy and incomplete research could persuade someone by means of innuendo and assumption that Russell had ties to Masonry. The facts are however that nobody has been able to come up with any concrete evidence of links between Russell and Freemasonry, and Russell's recorded speeches and writings (including question and answer sessions) have demonstrably shown his lack of knowledge regarding Masonry.
Go to just about any 19th centruy Lutheran church and you'll find "masonic symbols."
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justhuman
Even if Russell wasn't a freemson still the Watchtower and Russell at their begining they have too many conections with Occult. Specially the way that they were explaining prophecies, and I talk about pyramidology which is a masoning and occcult religion.
Even if the Watchtower and Russell they were just borrowing ideas from freemasons still they are influenced from it.
But what makes me really wonder is that there are just too many connections with this two. Plus how come a 17 year old guy managed to set up a religion in such quick way trough out America in the late 1800's and managed to write all this books and sermons. Something does not fit here. And why did he used Masonic symbols and terms in his puplished books?
I find it very hard to accept that the Watchtower does not have or used to have connections with the illuminati.
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chasson
>I talk about pyramidology which is a masoning and occcult religion.
Pyramidology from Piazzi Smith and Joseph Seiss was not an occult religion, but a stupid christian's theory.
> And why did he used Masonic symbols and terms in his puplished books?
What are the symbols you talkin' about ?
Bye
Charles
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Kenneson
Justhuman,
Joseph Smith was only 15 when he claimed to have his first revelation that led to the founding of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (Mormons).
Russell was a haberdasher and was not destitute. He was also a writer. With the money from subscriptions to the Watch Tower and sales of his books he was able to produce more. I see nothing sinister in this.
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RR
C.T. Russell did not invent pyramidology, neither did the Masons. For the Masons the pyramid was their logo, one of the seven wonders of the world, created by the world's best masons, the eqyptians.
As was stated pyramidolgy was started by many in the Christian churches, Seiss and Smythe were both Biblical scholars, not associated with the Adventist or Watch Tower Society.
Some of the early Millerites began to dabble in this theory and accepted it,some like George Storrs found it interesting and wrote about it. Russell accepted it from Storrs,later from both Seiss and Smythe.
Today there are dozens of Christian denominations that teach pyramidology. As well as non-Christian groups.
I myself believe there is something to this structure. There's an article on the Bible Students Online website that has an interesting piece on the Great Pyramid.
As to why Russell used the symbol of RA (sun with wings)? It reminded him a scriptures in Malachi 4:2
"But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth"
Interestingly,Bible Students today do not use the symbol.
RR
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dolphman
Here is something to consider. I've learned also that Russell associated with people of other orders as well, Rosicrusians being one of them. One must accept that Russell DID use occult symbology, regardless, and this leads me to this conclusion.
Russell probably dabbled in a hodgepodge of different orders, collectively taking what he wanted from all of them and funnelling their ideology and symbology into the WTBTS. Rosicrucians are still an order, a secret society if you will, that dabbles in occult practices that are quite powerful. I have always believed freemasons and rosicrucians are pretty similair in nature, differing on certain beliefs and practices but often having OVERLAPPING MEMBERSHIPS with other orders.
But the thing I find most fascinating is that he was a known associate of the Rothschilds, themselves freemasons and members of the so called 13 families of the illuminati. Even the Russells themselves are on this list of people. Appartently the same Rothschild who helped Russell fund the WTBTS also helped Joseph Smith of Mormon fame. So, regardless if C.Russell was an active freemason, he was certainly influenced by them to various degrees and could have very well be in league with them and implemented their agenda to a certain degree. So maybe the point of him being a freemason is mute, if you at least consider the fact that he may have been facilitating their agenda. It's kind of like a Pope who doesn't try hard to save the jews. He's not a Nazi himself, but he IS helping them indirectly. Although I think Russell was quite happy to help Freemasons in whatever capacity they needed him to.
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AlanF
justhuman, you've made some incorrect statements.
First, when Russell adopted pyramidology around 1880, pyramidology was a very young field and was considered real science by many respected people. I already described how the Astronomer Royal of England, Piazzi Smythe, promoted it as science connected with Judeo-Christianity, and how Joseph Seiss, a highly respected Lutheran minister and author, promoted it in connection with his own Christian religion. There was no occult connection whatsoever. It was only much later that pyramidology was adopted by a lot of real kooks, so that by about 1920 it was recognized by reasonable people as pure nonsense.
Second, Russell was born in 1852, so when he started publishing Zion's Watch Tower in 1879, he was 27 years old. That was a fairly mature age at the time, and Russell was especially mature, having run his father's large clothing business since he was about 14. Furthermore, Russell's wife Maria was actually extremely influential in the Bible Student movement. She was about ten years older than Russell, and far more educated than he was. She did much of the writing of early Bible Student publications, until about 1894. As some have said, Maria load the cannon and Charles fired it.
So you need to get your facts straight before you decide to accept wild conspiracy theories.
Dolphman, you keep saying "I've learned this and that" and Russell "probably did this and that", but I have yet to see you provide a shred of evidence. You need to provide references and links to your sources. Otherwise your claims have no credibility. For example, how do you know that Russell associated with the Rothschilds? How do you know that the Russells were on a list of 13 illuminati families? What's the basis for your claim that some Rothschild funded the WTBS?
Did you even read the conspiracy theory debunking link that Kenneson gave? http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/15932/1.ashx
Evidence, man, evidence! Have a healthy dose of skepticism. Accepting conspiracy theories without evidence can make you look like a fool.
AlanF
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confusedjw
The following is a direct quote from Ray Franz, "My parents were affiliated with the watch Tower organization from about 1913 onward and Charles Taze Russell was still alive in 1913 and the president at that time...There was no evidence whatsoever of any influence from freemasonry by any of us, not has there been since, including the fifteen years I spent at the brooklyn headquarters, nine of these years spent on the governing body."
He denies it so it must be true!